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Hauntings (pg. 6)
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| Renegade |
I think the thing that everyone needs to take account of in all these stories is the power of the mind. You have to remember that, despite our above average intelligence, we still have, essentially, pre-historic brains and the same defense mechanisms prevalent in all animal life. It's natural, especially as a child alone in their room in the dark, for the defense mechanisms to kick into overdrive. It's in the best interests of an organism to imagine or pre-empt the threat before it turns up. If we were sleeping in the jungle (and we still have the neural structure as our pre-hitoric ancestors that did) it would be in our best interests - in terms of survivial - to internally obsess about the threat of being eaten by a tiger when we are deprived of our primary sense - vision - before going to sleep at night time. Now that we exist in a world where we have no real direct threat to our existence, this same mechanism transfers the anxiety onto other threats - be they ghosts, aliens, moth-men or whatever. Note that an religious individual will see angels, a UFO freak will see aliens and ghost afficianados will see ghosts - and it's also perfectly natural to attribute unexplained bumps, lights and shadows to ghosts, even if we don't have a belief in them to begin with. Why is that? Let's do a quick study:
What do you see here --> :) ?
Do you see a yellow circle with two dots and a curvy line? No, in all likelihood you don't. You see a smiley face. Once I point out the two dots and line, of course, you see it but we're naturally "programmed" to pick out patterns in phenomenon we come across (which explains why we notice 11.11 on the clock and not 7.23) and then filter these patterns through anthropocentric lenses. We see a smiley face on that yellow circle because it's in our nature - even as infants - to read and identify human faces and features. We all identify patterns in everyday phenomenon, the only difference is the way in which we interpret them.
When our brain attempts to make sense of things we see, it will always revert back to what we know through prior experience. Look at the ink-blot tests used by psychologists - why do you think they are used? Quite simply, it is because the patterns identified by the individual in what are, essentially, random, symetric blotches of ink, give an insight into what is on that individuals mind. A religious individual may see angels in the ink-blots where the atheist sees a toaster. Neither of these responses are correct, of course, because the ink-blots actually depict neither but it does demonstrate the unconscious ability of the human mind to make sense of random, unrelated phenomena by associating them with what it understands.
So, returning to ghosts, given our propensity to imagine threats where there are none, our ability to identify patterns in phenomenon where there are none and our anthropocentricity, I find it perfectly natural that individuals should encounter ghosts when they're alone in bed in the middle of the night. We spend all day in cities, where - usually - the majority of all activity we encounter is human controlled. We learn to identify sounds and patterns of sounds as being associated with human activity. *clomp, clomp, clomp* is the sound of footsteps, we've learnt this sub-consciously through experience. When we hear *clomp, clomp, clomp* in the middle of the night when our fear mechanism is on stand-by at red-alert, is it any wonder that we should hastily attribute the sound to footsteps? The brain has already decided what the sound is before reason enters into it. If it sounded like footsteps to the brain, then no amount of retro-active rationale is going to change its mind.
Similarly, in the city life, we no longer have any predators to fear. Consider our lineage back even a few million years - throughout that period we were primarily "the hunted" rather than "the hunter". Throughout that time, this mentality became gradually more and more ingrained in our congenital mental make-up - we were born to be scared and run away. Civilization only arose 10,000 years ago - not nearly long enough for this primordial fear of predators to leave us. We no longer have any predatory enemies but we still have a congential disposition to fear - and this fear has to be transposed onto something. In every day life, all we have to fear is humanity itself - consider the most frightening moments of your life and I'd be willing to bet that most of them were at the hands of humans, either directly or indirectly. Now is it any wonder that when we wake up in the middle of the night with our fear sense tingling that we should attribute it to a human figure at the end of the bed? Is it any wonder that we see human figures in the shadows on our wall?
If anyone wants to argue with what I've said, then I'd like you to answer some questions for me first:
1) Why are ghosts only usually seen at night?
2) Why are they only seen by individuals or small groups of individuals, often in an unfamiliar environment?
3) Why are ghosts always objects of fear? Why don't we ever see ghosts skipping happily through the walls, willing to crack a joke to break the awkward terror-ridden silence when confronted with a small child in bed?
4) Why do ghosts only inhabit structures that cause us to face fear and uncomfortableness? Why do we only see them in graveyards and delapidated Victorian houses rather than in Burger King or the local pub?
5) How is it that ghosts defy what we can otherwise postulate are the natural laws of the universe? How can incorporeal objects effect physical objects, and how can they be seen if they have no physical presence? Is it not true that neither light, nor electricity (nor any other element known to man) has such properties as to manifest itself in recognisable form?
So, what I'm trying to say is that we should not underestimate the power of the mind, nor the power of fear (the above questions were intended to demonstrate that ghosts are usually only seen when the fear mechanism is likely to be more alert). Ghosts may exist, but it seems unlikely. I've experienced some freaky stuff that I can't explain as well (I'll get into it if/when I get the chance) but I try to keep a lid on it and ask for the "rational" explanation.
Congratulations on reading this far. |
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| Misty Kitty |
^^^^ what about objects that move as if against natural laws??
Psy-T....
| quote: | | i disagree, the only neverchanging thing is the fact that changes will ALLWAYS occur, while on the other hand "time" is dependent on where are you checking it from? (diffrent places on earth = diffrent time, diffrent places in the universe = diffrent time LENGTH) |
regardless of the lenght of time in regard to place, isnt time still changing and therefore is a constant occurance??
i do agree that changes will always occur, but dont they change with time??? |
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| elena |
ill finish your post later renegade.
quick thing, how things you read/see/hear about always linger about in yer subconscience. i was in the elevator today when all of a sudden i see flashes shaped like a triangle on the corner floor of the elevator. at first i had to blink twice hard just to make sure it was really happening. i panicked for about 5 secs not knowing what to do. it was a whitish glow, almost like a source of light that kept on appearing and disappearing. as im about to get off the elevator i realize it was the light shining thru the elevator every time it went by a floor. retarded yes. momentarily freakish yes. :p |
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| Misty Kitty |
isnt deja vu when ur mind processes what ur eyes have seen before it becomes apparent in ur conscious?
How can dreams (which as far as i can tell are the minds way of processing information that u have encountered throughout ur life.) contain information that u are not aware of, and then have this information appear irl.
Are our bodys not capable of accepting/processing all information? we do only funtion and are therefore resticted to certain physical levels.
mebbe the surrealists where onto sumthing with their concept of the subconscious??? |
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| Psy-T |
hey renegade, three things:
a - i wanted to explain all the occurences to the mind earlier, and im happy i didnt, because youve putted it much more nicely then i would have
b - i allready knew all of what you said in your post, and as i was reading, i was hoping to find some info about dejavus (if you got any, please share)
c - there is the theory that the mind can really produce these "ghosts" or whatever, if we can learn how to use it properly (since we use only about 5% of out mind)
and misty kitty:
time actually doesnt "change", it sticks to a pattern, that Wont ever change "unless....." in each particular cordinate of the universe (regardless to the length of time)
alon |
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| S2K |
| must say, excellent post renegade, enjoyed reading it. |
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| Trancewave |
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
I think the thing that everyone needs to take account of in all these stories is the power of the mind. You have to remember that, despite our above average intelligence, we still have, essentially, pre-historic brains and the same defense mechanisms prevalent in all animal life. It's natural, especially as a child alone in their room in the dark, for the defense mechanisms to kick into overdrive. It's in the best interests of an organism to imagine or pre-empt the threat before it turns up. If we were sleeping in the jungle (and we still have the neural structure as our pre-hitoric ancestors that did) it would be in our best interests - in terms of survivial - to internally obsess about the threat of being eaten by a tiger when we are deprived of our primary sense - vision - before going to sleep at night time. Now that we exist in a world where we have no real direct threat to our existence, this same mechanism transfers the anxiety onto other threats - be they ghosts, aliens, moth-men or whatever. Note that an religious individual will see angels, a UFO freak will see aliens and ghost afficianados will see ghosts - and it's also perfectly natural to attribute unexplained bumps, lights and shadows to ghosts, even if we don't have a belief in them to begin with. Why is that? Let's do a quick study:
What do you see here --> :) ?
Do you see a yellow circle with two dots and a curvy line? No, in all likelihood you don't. You see a smiley face. Once I point out the two dots and line, of course, you see it but we're naturally "programmed" to pick out patterns in phenomenon we come across (which explains why we notice 11.11 on the clock and not 7.23) and then filter these patterns through anthropocentric lenses. We see a smiley face on that yellow circle because it's in our nature - even as infants - to read and identify human faces and features. We all identify patterns in everyday phenomenon, the only difference is the way in which we interpret them.
When our brain attempts to make sense of things we see, it will always revert back to what we know through prior experience. Look at the ink-blot tests used by psychologists - why do you think they are used? Quite simply, it is because the patterns identified by the individual in what are, essentially, random, symetric blotches of ink, give an insight into what is on that individuals mind. A religious individual may see angels in the ink-blots where the atheist sees a toaster. Neither of these responses are correct, of course, because the ink-blots actually depict neither but it does demonstrate the unconscious ability of the human mind to make sense of random, unrelated phenomena by associating them with what it understands.
So, returning to ghosts, given our propensity to imagine threats where there are none, our ability to identify patterns in phenomenon where there are none and our anthropocentricity, I find it perfectly natural that individuals should encounter ghosts when they're alone in bed in the middle of the night. We spend all day in cities, where - usually - the majority of all activity we encounter is human controlled. We learn to identify sounds and patterns of sounds as being associated with human activity. *clomp, clomp, clomp* is the sound of footsteps, we've learnt this sub-consciously through experience. When we hear *clomp, clomp, clomp* in the middle of the night when our fear mechanism is on stand-by at red-alert, is it any wonder that we should hastily attribute the sound to footsteps? The brain has already decided what the sound is before reason enters into it. If it sounded like footsteps to the brain, then no amount of retro-active rationale is going to change its mind.
Similarly, in the city life, we no longer have any predators to fear. Consider our lineage back even a few million years - throughout that period we were primarily "the hunted" rather than "the hunter". Throughout that time, this mentality became gradually more and more ingrained in our congenital mental make-up - we were born to be scared and run away. Civilization only arose 10,000 years ago - not nearly long enough for this primordial fear of predators to leave us. We no longer have any predatory enemies but we still have a congential disposition to fear - and this fear has to be transposed onto something. In every day life, all we have to fear is humanity itself - consider the most frightening moments of your life and I'd be willing to bet that most of them were at the hands of humans, either directly or indirectly. Now is it any wonder that when we wake up in the middle of the night with our fear sense tingling that we should attribute it to a human figure at the end of the bed? Is it any wonder that we see human figures in the shadows on our wall?
If anyone wants to argue with what I've said, then I'd like you to answer some questions for me first:
1) Why are ghosts only usually seen at night?
2) Why are they only seen by individuals or small groups of individuals, often in an unfamiliar environment?
3) Why are ghosts always objects of fear? Why don't we ever see ghosts skipping happily through the walls, willing to crack a joke to break the awkward terror-ridden silence when confronted with a small child in bed?
4) Why do ghosts only inhabit structures that cause us to face fear and uncomfortableness? Why do we only see them in graveyards and delapidated Victorian houses rather than in Burger King or the local pub?
5) How is it that ghosts defy what we can otherwise postulate are the natural laws of the universe? How can incorporeal objects effect physical objects, and how can they be seen if they have no physical presence? Is it not true that neither light, nor electricity (nor any other element known to man) has such properties as to manifest itself in recognisable form?
So, what I'm trying to say is that we should not underestimate the power of the mind, nor the power of fear (the above questions were intended to demonstrate that ghosts are usually only seen when the fear mechanism is likely to be more alert). Ghosts may exist, but it seems unlikely. I've experienced some freaky stuff that I can't explain as well (I'll get into it if/when I get the chance) but I try to keep a lid on it and ask for the "rational" explanation.
Congratulations on reading this far. |
That's deep Renegade. A most excellent post, I enjoyed reading it as well. :) |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| I do agree with you renegade, and I am considering my case to most likely be fear-induced hallucinations. Still, it's kinda strange for such vivid hallucinations to appear out of nowhere and disappear in a few days. |
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| Misty Kitty |
dus anyone have theories on time relativity in repect to age???
i dont know about anyone else but years are certainly going by quicker than when i was a child... A friend mentioned it was in repect to height n your closeness to the earths centre of gravity, but to mee that seems a little far fetched!!!
Time being in a pattern that doesnt change, a forward momentum in regard to the physical at that specific point in space. doesn't that mean that at that point time cannot change and therefore negates the idea that things always change (i suppose this is in reference to big bang theories and the expanding universe which i suppose whould mean with expansion time constantly changing)
ok ive confused myself :confused: |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
I guess time passes by faster because your brain percieves time differently. The theory about gravity you mentioned is absolutely ridiculous because if you grow 1m in height, the gravity effect on your head would change exactly 0.0266666%. Hardly a noticable difference. You've confused me as well with your second question. If you're asking whether the pace of the flow of time changes, the answer is yes it does.
Anyway, I couldn't resist the match in the microwave experiment, that's mentioned on that ball lightning page someone posted, but I didn't get any ball lightnings, I just got the same effect that would happen if you'd put a piece of metal in the microwave. Interesting, however, that the microwave acts in same fashion with the ignited materials as it does with metal. I guess it's because fire breaks bonds between the atoms, it's easier to loosen the electrons from the core of the atom in those conditions...I'm wondering if it's doing any harm to the microwave oven though. |
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| Misty Kitty |
hehe i knew the height one was a bit far fetched, but then again so is my freind!!!!
Erm im not sure what i was trying to ask in the second bit, jst throwning my thought process out there, ill think about it more n see what i come up with.
And the match thing, hmmmmn ive neva tried that, think i have to. After all it is my land lords microwave not mine.. Is the match meant to be lit or not??? |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Misty Kitty
And the match thing, hmmmmn ive neva tried that, think i have to. After all it is my land lords microwave not mine.. Is the match meant to be lit or not??? |
It should be lit.
| quote: | He said he was really scared at first but then he found out that human hair and nails grow even after death.
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Yes, but only for a few days until the nutrients around the nail and hair producing cells get used up. So your grandpa probably found someone who was pretty close to a world record in hair length. Unless that person was burried in a very nutritious liquid environment. |
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