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US Supreme Court ducks decision on 10 commandments (pg. 6)
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| MrSquirrel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
That's what you get for having no resolution!
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I have lots of resolution...I just hate running my browser in full screen wide mode. I like it "page sized" :p
No thanks :p
MrS |
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| Echo of Silence |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Please God... make her stop. :( |
Geez, Diginut, why don't you stop? In my opinion, you're expending entirely too much energy trying to "win" something that you already won. Nellie has no intention of backing down even though she's clearly incorrect in just about EVERY statement she types. (Did she say you are stubborn? Well, I guess she made one correct statement ;))
You guys are not personally responsible for the errors in her thinking.
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Christianity is a religion. If you have a problem with that, take your complaints to Merriam-Webster. |
This is cute. I can talk louder than you so you must admit I'm right! You could put this in [SIZE=60] and guess what? She's still not going to agree with you. Why? She doesn't choose to agree. I seriously don't think she's going to read anything you type and see the "light" or admit she's wrong.
Everyone with any intelligence knows you're "right." You made your point long ago. Stop beating your head against a brickwall. You're giving us Political Forum lurkers a headache! :D
Actually, its more entertaining than anything in Chillout. Please, carry on.
:) |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Echo of Silence
...You could put this in [SIZE=60] and guess what? She's still not going to agree with you. Why? She doesn't choose to agree. I seriously don't think she's going to read anything you type and see the "light" or admit she's wrong. |
You are correct only to the extent that it wouldn't work because it doesn't go up to size 60. I assure you that she would understand better if I could type that large. :p
I don't expect her to give up her beliefs... only her flagrantly incoherent and vapid argument. |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by TranceGiant
too.many.quotes.
:nervous: |
Lol, you took the words out of my mouth :) |
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| Echo of Silence |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I don't expect her to give up her beliefs... |
Yes, I later realized "statement" is possibly the wrong English word to use? I do not know the word that I want to use for this statement and others like it:
Christianity is not a religion.
Would I have been better using the word "facts?"
I don't have access to my dictionaries. grrrrrrs.
Political Forum lurkers should remain silent
:gsmile: |
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| anuneventrade |
| quote: | Originally posted by Echo of Silence
You guys are not personally responsible for the errors in her thinking.
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Perhaps if she takes the time to read the definition above, she will realize the errors in her ways! :stongue: |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Lol, you took the words out of my mouth :) |
Same here.
I wanted so much to comment on this one, but geez, where the hell to start? What to say that hasn't already been said?
Enough already.
Hey, how 'bout them KC Chiefs? I think they've got a great shot this year! |
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| devonian rabbit |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
I still think he couldn't of made them fit, he's just not man enough to admit it :P |
If they were important enough to the theme, he probably would have designed the entire sculpture around the writing huh? Or at least made a design that could accomodate them.
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
But Moses is in the center... hmmm |
Praise God!!! :D
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
I think it was the only one they could fit in there seeing a theme are we? |
The only theme I see in the North and South Friezes is the one that the artist intended: historical lawgivers in chronological order to symbolize the development of secular law.
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Can you expand on lemon test? |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_v._Kurtzman
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
The point I was initially trying to make is that the Supreme court of course would not want to associate itself with the hypocrisy of trying this case. |
Perhaps... I think it was just so obvious that Moore overstepped his authority, that they just let the Eleventh's decision stand.
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Undoubtetly St. Thomae Aquinatis can be viewed as father of natural law, however the natural law we use today is much more comparble to Locke, especially considering it includes property rights. |
You said that natural law was derived from the Bible. It was not. It was classical Greek philosophy, which later medieval & Enlightenment philosophers borrowed and selectively applied to the Bible/Christianity.
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Of course using such logic as you, we can say that the Phonecians were the first ones to develop natural law as they were the ones who created the alphabet who the Greeks then used to formulate stocisim etc... |
You're reaching here.. The difference between Stoic invention of natural law theory and Phonecian alphabet is not analogous to enlightenment era natural law being adapted from Stoic natural law.
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Good for him, but history has been absent of abolishment movements till Christian enlighten thinkers came around. Even the famed Sparticus cared little against the institution of slavery, he simply didn't want himself and his comrades to be slaves. |
To quote Twain,
| quote: | But at last in England, an illegitimate Christian rose against slavery. It is curious that when a Christian rises against a rooted wrong at all, he is usually an illegitimate Christian, member of some despised and bastard sect. There was a bitter struggle, but in the end the slave trade had to go -- and went. The Biblical authorization remained, but the practice changed.
[...]
Our own conversion came at last. We began to stir against slavery. Hearts grew soft, here, there, and yonder. There was no place in the land where the seeker could not find some small budding sign of pity for the slave. No place in all the land but one -- the pulpit. It yielded at last; it always does. It fought a strong and stubborn fight, and then did what it always does, joined the procession -- at the tail end. Slavery fell. The slavery text remained; the practice changed, that was all. |
I still contend that the Bible condones slavery throughout. Since you don't appear to be a literalist/inerrantist however, I think we're pretty much on the same page concerning the cherry picking of scripture to suit whatever position one may hold. Christians essentially ignored the parts of the Bible that conflicted with what they saw as "natural law."
Also, I wouldn't credit Christian thinkers alone. Deists like Franklin and Paine (among others) were vocal opponents of slavery.
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
And many greek polis did exercise a system of serpation of powers. The Roman republic was surely setup with serpation of powers and checks and balances, but it is not the exact ideals that our current systems are based upon today. |
Not the exact ideals? I suppose the "exact ideals" are present in the Bible?
Are you arguing that ancient Greek and Roman separation of powers/mixed constitution were so fundamentally different from ours, as to be less of an influence than the Bible in the formation of modern separation of powers?
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Charles Louis de Secondat Baron de Montesquieu is what many consider to be the origin of seperations of powers or checks and balances in our modern society, and he certainly was their strongest advocate in the modern era. |
If you bothered to read through at least the introduction at the link on Polybius that I offered before, you would have seen that the third section is dedicated solely to Polybius' influence on Montesquieu. You, however, have argued that the 'separation of powers' was "completely and uniquely derived from the bible."
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Natural law as we know it today in western society is indeed different from your classical natural law. |
And your point?
Natural law as we know it today is the heir of classical natural law. It is the foundation on which subsequent natural law theories were formulated. Modern western law resembles the ancient Greek and Roman concepts of equality, natural law, citizenship, government, etc... far more than anything found in the Bible.
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
The main consideration here is property rights. You can see the arguments Locke makes for poerty rights by opening your own copy and looking up the scripture he references. |
I don't know about "main" consideration. Locke may have seen property as the main consideration, and granted, he quotes scripture as support for property rights (God gave the world to Adam..) But the fashion in which he does so seems as though he could have done the same thing with the Mahabarata by applying principles of natural law which were ultimately derived from classical Greek philosophy.
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Anyway ill be glad to get to this at another time... I'm still working on my term paper on Perioikoic military utility so all my research right now is going to that. Plus I lost my locke book must of left it at home.. and besides we are thread-jacking, lets move this somewhere else now that we are going to argue the origins of natural law. |
Yes, we have strayed significantly off topic. Start a new thread if you want, but I too will have very limited time to put into it.. I am enjoying our discussion on the origins of natural law very much though.
richard |
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| WhoaNellie1487 |
| quote: | | You said you went to church every Sunday. Can't make up your mind? |
I used to, Until I was diagnosed with the illnesses I'm battling.But,it's a little hard to right now.(well..the past 2 years that is)
but,Please, don't go there. |
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| WhoaNellie1487 |
| quote: | Originally posted by anuneventrade
Perhaps if she takes the time to read the definition above, she will realize the errors in her ways! :stongue: |
Just because I don't agree with you,and you don't understand means I have an error in my ways? That's really childish.
Futher more.. Just because you say Christianity is a religion,doesn't make it so. You're not God, neither am I. But, I'm a believer, I know the difference between Religion,and relationship. Sorry you can't say the same for yourself. Until you've walked atleast a mile in my shoes, you will never understand. |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487
Just because I don't agree with you,and you don't understand means I have an error in my ways? That's really childish.
Futher more.. Just because you say Christianity is a religion,doesn't make it so. You're not God, neither am I. But, I'm a believer, I know the difference between Religion,and relationship. Sorry you can't say the same for yourself. Until you've walked atleast a mile in my shoes, you will never understand. |
Will you please then tell us what you think a religion is?
Seriously, your views are so totally distorted that I'm starting to think you're intentionally being so stubborn just to laugh at the furious reaction of all the posters on this forum. |
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| WhoaNellie1487 |
| quote: | Originally posted by anuneventrade
:haha: I think the most amusing thing out of this whole post is that you referred to me as Athiest. That's Digi, not me. I could be one of the farthest things from Athiest. |
Well,Then what do you believe? you sure sound like an atheist.
| quote: | | Please do not sit there and try to assume what I believe in. I believe that the commandments have no place in front of a courtroom, because it is not the unanamous beliefs of the country. This has little, in fact nothing, to do with my religious prefrences. |
Actually,it says a lot about what you believe. You'd be suprised.
| quote: | Okay, enough of this nonsense. Since you refuse to look it up, I'll bring the definition to you.
Main Entry: Chris·tian·i·ty
Pronunciation: "kris-chE-'a-n&-tE, "krish-, -'cha-n&-, "kris-tE-'a-
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 : the religion derived from Jesus Christ , based on the Bible as sacred scripture, and professed by Eastern, Roman Catholic, and Protestant bodies
2 : conformity to the Christian religion
3 : CHRISTENDOM 2
Now that we have that all cleared up.
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It's not nonsense. It's pure absolute truth.Can't handle it? Didn't think so..
But It's not a religion. Simple,and plain as that.
| quote: | Main Entry: athe·ism
Pronunciation: 'A-thE-"i-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
Date: 1546
1 archaic : UNGODLINESS, WICKEDNESS
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity
Notice, how no where in there it says that Atheism is a religion. Can't say the same for Christianity. |
Ugh,you are so totally getting things mixed up here. I'm not even gonna start with it.
I don't need to hear anything from a lecture, okies?
Going to church, and attending services isn't some ritual. I've already proven that. Accept it,or forget it. That's all you have to do.
| quote: | I was referring to your usage of the word "we" in the statement you had made. You said it as though you were part of the religious organization. Go back and re read.
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I didn't. I'm not part of a "religious organization" No need to make accusations.
| quote: | And since we already established that Christianity is a religion, I think I need to say no more.
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No we haven't ^_^ Because it's not.^_^
| quote: | | Um, at what point did I "whine". Wouldn't that be your dreadful name calling being used? |
Name calling? Oh no not me.
| quote: | | *sigh* The 10 commandments support a religious backround. The government should not keep them there because not every religion follows it. What can you not see? We have laws for a reason. We don't need the 10 commandments to back it up. |
Do not. I can repeat it if you like. Do not, What part do you not understand?
You were asking, or someone was asking about the protestants,the Jews,and all that. You know, we all follow the 10 commandments. So if that's your argument. It's already been terminated.
| quote: | | Your country? You own it now? You are part of a country. And I don't believe I should have to state why it shouldn't be in the courthouse again, but I suppose I shall, since you're obviously not getting it. |
My country,as in I live here. I don't own it. But,it is my country
| quote: | | The Ten commandments refer to a RELIGIOUS backround. It has no need to be in a courtroom. Not everyone follows the 10 commandments. The law, yes. The commandments, no. |
I'm getting it, You don't know what you're talking about.Obviously. It's not referring to a religious background. Are you really that blind? The commandments are a part of the law.
| quote: | | Then why and try and force the belief of the 10 commandments? |
No one is forcing it. It's the law, Live by it..or pay the price pretty much.
| quote: | It was built off of millions of religions. There is no need to concentrate on just one when it is the combination of them all that makes this country what it is.
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It wasn't built off of religion. You really need to get that straight.
| quote: | | Referring to me as an Athiest. Big mistake. I am one of the farthest things from one. You don't know me. Don't try to assume what I believe in. Mess up our money? Um, which religion passes around a collection basket? |
Then What are you? Yep,Take " In God we trust " off our coins. That's what I meant.
| quote: | | We are not friends. Do not refer to me as one. He carries blank slates. Maybe there was a significance in this. |
Hm,So you want me to call you My foe? Just trying to be polite. Guess that's not a word in your vocabulary.
| quote: | | At what point did I say that God wasn't? I said that you are trying to force the belief that God is. I stand by that. Here you are doing it again. If people don't believe that, don't force it. |
I'm not.
| quote: | At what point did the government become religious? Placing the ten commandments is a religious preference, as stated numerous times aboce.
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Go back,and look at the history of the government.I've already done my part.It's never been religious. But, It is based upon God.
| quote: | | I'm not dogging on Christians. I'm dogging on you. There's a difference. |
Then do explain,because that's how it looks and feels.
| quote: | | The Bill of Rights was signed by many people, and was agreed on by many people of many different backrounds. He made up the Bill of Rights based on what the foundation of a country should be. In no way whatsoever did he mention anything about a Sabbath day, which your ten commandments does. |
It's not just MY 10 commandments.
| quote: | | Maybe after reading those definitions, you will see the error in your ways. |
I don't have errors,just because what I say doesn't please you. |
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