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First pot overdose ever (pg. 4)
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Fuq
U gave up because u lost. Repeatedly. |
After this post I'm probably going to give up on this discussion too, so enjoy yet another one of your "victories". :rolleyes:
| quote: | | Uv lost me completely here. :conf: |
Well, then let me explain. Previously, you stated that nicotine is more dangerous than heroin, because a same amount of nicotine does more damage than a same amount of heroin. Now, you state that the thc poisoning is impossible, because the density of that mineral in cannabis is very low. Considering that the density of nicotine in a cigaret is also very low while heroin injections contain pretty much 100% heroin, you have shown that your previous argument about nicotine/heroin was a nonsense.
| quote: | | It was first published in an english newspaper (the telegraph i think) afaik. |
Yes it was. Are you saying that english newspapers are sponsored by anti-drug organizations?
| quote: | | Or maybe it wasnt the same people... |
I can't see how people who desire prohibition of marijuana can at the same time say it's impossible to poison oneself from it. That really discards any of their arguments, right? It really seems like you made this up.
| quote: | | He was probably a heavy user of a lot of things. Caffeine, bread, milk, toothpaste etc... |
Yes, but of all these things, cannabis is amongst the most likely candidates for death, especially because at the time of death the only thing that wasn't normal was that large amounts of thc were found in blood.
| quote: | | Look whos talking. Ur the exact opposite of open minded. He could not have possibly ingested anywhere near a 'toxic' amount. |
The amount one person has to take in order to kill oneself varies greatly. Besides, unlice alcohol that stays in one's body for a day or two, thc can stay for several weeks. That's why a continuous intake of thc can create an amount of it in the system that can be equal to a huge one-time intake.
Ok, I see you didn't understand what I ment, so I shall try to explain the general meaning of the phrase. If something is possible, than it is very likely that it will happen sooner or later, even if it is very improbable.
| quote: | | Ok.... He took a drug that can be fatal if u take something like 2-3 times ur normal amount. He also took a drug that can (maybe) be fatal if u take 40000 times the normal amount. And ur saying the chance of cannabis killing him is bigger than the chance of alcohol killing him? |
I can't see how I can intelligently respond to such a paragraph. Well, I'll try anyway...
1) There was no mention of any excessive amount of alcohol in his blood. If that were the caise, nobody would suspect cannabis poisoning.
2) I don't know what you think a normal amount of alcohol is, but if you say a normal amount is the one where you pass away unconcious on the floor, then I guess 3 times that will kill you. However, people very rarely do that to themselves, and here it was certainly not the case.
3) 40000 times the normal amount (again, what is the normal amount?) of anything will kill you on the spot. 100 times the normal amount will do quite nicely. Imagine yourself drinking 100 times the normal daily amount of water. Don't post such nonsense.
| quote: | | There has been about half a million deaths caused DIRECTLY by alcohol in the us alone since 79. |
Solely from alcohol poisoning? Again, don't count car accidents into this. Where do you get your statistics?
| quote: | | The odds are about 1 in 100 trillion. |
Again, the amount of numbers you just pull out of your sleeve without anything to back them up is amazing.
| quote: | | How do u know that was the only unhealthy thing he did? WHat about his drinking? |
Again, since it was not mentioned, he obviously didn't have an excessive amount of it in his blood. And yes, I do agree it is much more probable to overdose on alcohol than it is on cannabis, I believe that is out of the question, so I don't see why you are attacking me on this issue. |
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| DJ-Fuq |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Well, then let me explain. Previously, you stated that nicotine is more dangerous than heroin, because a same amount of nicotine does more damage than a same amount of heroin. Now, you state that the thc poisoning is impossible, because the density of that mineral in cannabis is very low. Considering that the density of nicotine in a cigaret is also very low while heroin injections contain pretty much 100% heroin, you have shown that your previous argument about nicotine/heroin was a nonsense. |
Firstly i think i said it was more addictive, not more dangerous (even tho it is anyway). Secondly what ur saying doesnt make sense. Just quote where i contradicted myself. Btw, ur last reply in that argument contradicted itself (and i pointed it out, but typically u didnt reply)
| quote: | | Yes it was. Are you saying that english newspapers are sponsored by anti-drug organizations? |
They are mostly anti-drug themselves.
| quote: | | I can't see how people who desire prohibition of marijuana can at the same time say it's impossible to poison oneself from it. That really discards any of their arguments, right? It really seems like you made this up. |
Well, i havnt. Not all of them want it illegal because they think it poisons people, u know.
| quote: | | Yes, but of all these things, cannabis is amongst the most likely candidates for death, especially because at the time of death the only thing that wasn't normal was that large amounts of thc were found in blood. |
How the is it among the most likely when it has never killed anyone?
| quote: | | The amount one person has to take in order to kill oneself varies greatly. Besides, unlice alcohol that stays in one's body for a day or two, thc can stay for several weeks. That's why a continuous intake of thc can create an amount of it in the system that can be equal to a huge one-time intake. |
lol. Delta-9-thc gets u high. 11-hydroxy-thc (11-oh-thc) and 11-nor-9-carboxy-delta-9-thc (11-nor), which dont have any effect, are metabolites that stay in ur system for weeks. Delta-9-thc is gone after a few hours. Of course prohibitonists will pretend that 11-oh-thc and 11-nor are the same as delta-9-thc, just like ur doing.
| quote: | | Ok, I see you didn't understand what I ment, so I shall try to explain the general meaning of the phrase. If something is possible, than it is very likely that it will happen sooner or later, even if it is very improbable. |
So? That doesnt mean its possible to ingest enough thc to die.
| quote: | I can't see how I can intelligently respond to such a paragraph. Well, I'll try anyway...
1) There was no mention of any excessive amount of alcohol in his blood. If that were the caise, nobody would suspect cannabis poisoning.
2) I don't know what you think a normal amount of alcohol is, but if you say a normal amount is the one where you pass away unconcious on the floor, then I guess 3 times that will kill you. However, people very rarely do that to themselves, and here it was certainly not the case. |
My friends dads friend drank a pint of whiskey and died.
| quote: | | 3) 40000 times the normal amount (again, what is the normal amount?) of anything will kill you on the spot. 100 times the normal amount will do quite nicely. Imagine yourself drinking 100 times the normal daily amount of water. Don't post such nonsense. |
Its not nonsense. U dont have to drink very much water to up ur salt levels and die.
| quote: | | Solely from alcohol poisoning? Again, don't count car accidents into this. Where do you get your statistics? |
They originated from the american government. www.briancbennett.com | quote: | | Again, the amount of numbers you just pull out of your sleeve without anything to back them up is amazing. |
Well, millions of people smoke every day and have been for thousands of years. Nobody has died yet as far as we know. Therefore the chances are infinitely low untill somebody does die from it.
| quote: | | Again, since it was not mentioned, he obviously didn't have an excessive amount of it in his blood. And yes, I do agree it is much more probable to overdose on alcohol than it is on cannabis, I believe that is out of the question, so I don't see why you are attacking me on this issue. |
Arent u saying its likely that cannabis killed him? |
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| Muff2K |
it's bull.
pot doesnt kill people. people kill people. |
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| wick |
hahahah
this story is such a LOAD OF !!!
dj fuq is right.
the amount of weed you would need to smoke IS A LOAD. it is PYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to smoke the amount! as Dj Fuq said before, you would pass out LONGGGGGGGGGG before u would overdose on weed.
who ever believes this story is a follower who cant think for himself, no better than a person that makes themself think they like GaNsTA RaPP just to fit in. yo |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Fuq
Firstly i think i said it was more addictive, not more dangerous (even tho it is anyway). Secondly what ur saying doesnt make sense. Just quote where i contradicted myself. |
In previous discussion you intentionally neglected the density of the substance in the overall intake in order to prove your point while you are emphasizing it in this one. It is either relevant or irrelevant. You have to make up your mind, because either way one of your arguments is false. I can't see how you don't understand that.
| quote: | | Btw, ur last reply in that argument contradicted itself (and i pointed it out, but typically u didnt reply) |
Typically? I replied to your posts several times, but eventually I stopped bothering since your stubbornness prevented any possiblity of a reasonable dialogue.
| quote: | | They are mostly anti-drug themselves. |
Now this is what is typical. Defend your point by attacking the majority for being biased and close minded. You might want to check out DigiNut's thread "How to win any argument" in the political debate forum. It was a sarcastic remark, but it really hit a nail on the head with what you're doing here.
| quote: | | Well, i havnt. Not all of them want it illegal because they think it poisons people, u know. |
Oh, yes, I forgot it is an evil global conspiracy, the reasons for which are unbeknown to us.
| quote: | | How the is it among the most likely when it has never killed anyone? |
How can I spell it out for you more clearly? Because it was the only substance whose amount in that person's body was found in excessive amounts.
| quote: | | lol. Delta-9-thc gets u high. 11-hydroxy-thc (11-oh-thc) and 11-nor-9-carboxy-delta-9-thc (11-nor), which dont have any effect, are metabolites that stay in ur system for weeks. Delta-9-thc is gone after a few hours. Of course prohibitonists will pretend that 11-oh-thc and 11-nor are the same as delta-9-thc, just like ur doing. |
If a substance gets you high, it doesn't mean it's more harmful than a substance that doesn't. You keep putting words into my mouth and attacking me on the matters I haven't mentioned. Your close mindedness and pro drug propaganda you are subjected to have caused you to think that all the "prohibitionists" (although I am for legalization of marijuana) think the same and use the same arguments. It is obvious that you don't respond to the answers I give you, but to the answers you think I give you, and that is partially the reason why I stopped responding to you in our previous discussion.
| quote: | | So? That doesnt mean its possible to ingest enough thc to die. |
Theoretically it is certainly possible. In reality, since such an incident hasn't happened before, it means it is unlikely. But for a 150th time, unlikely does not eqal impossible.
| quote: | | My friends dads friend drank a pint of whiskey and died. |
Heh, sounds more like an urban legend than something that can be confirmed. But really, here you are going against yourself, although I think you miss the clarity to see that. What you are saying is that a very small amount of drug that is almost certain not to cause death in such miniscule dosage has infact done so. Yet you regard it as absolutely 100% impossible that an amount of cannabis that is harmless to one individual can kill someone else.
| quote: | | Its not nonsense. U dont have to drink very much water to up ur salt levels and die. |
But you can smoke half of the lethal dosage of cannabis you mentioned (20000 joints/day) and still live? Right.
This site is a private one, not sponsored by the american government, and it's obviously biased. However, I will take into consideration things posted there, as they really don't support your points. You see, alcohol-induced causes are not alcohol overdoses. You mentioned the exact thing I anticipated you will.
But this site offers another statistic that you conviniently missed out on, and that is emergency room visits. 33000 people annually visit emergency room because of marijuana overdose. It says there that about 80% of them involve some other drug, but that still leaves us with 6600 emergency room visits because of marijuana in the US alone, and that is coming from your biased anti drug war site. So are you still claiming it doesn't have negative side effects? It also mentions that 23 deaths were coded to be induced by marijuana. It dismisses that statistic as an error, yet it bases it's viewpoints on the other statistics that originate from the very same source. The very fact that it has huge bold letters saying UNRELIABLE all over the unconvenient statistic just points to the obvious bias of the site.
It also says that there have been about a 10000 suicides caused by hallucinogenic drug intake in 1998 alone. I recall our earlier argument where you claimed that the story about a kid cutting of his balls because of mandrake-induced hallucinations are lies and government conspiracies. I'm glad you posted that link.
| quote: | | Well, millions of people smoke every day and have been for thousands of years. Nobody has died yet as far as we know. Therefore the chances are infinitely low untill somebody does die from it. |
You are using faulty and somewhat circular logic here. Nobody has died, therefore it impossible to die from it. And since it is impossible to die from it, then the reasons for death are somewhere else. And yet another death has not been caused by cannabis.
| quote: | | Arent u saying its likely that cannabis killed him? |
I am saying it is possible, not likely. Although after reading the statistics on the anti drug link you provided which states US officials have declared 23 deaths to be most likely induced by marijuana, while there have been 6600 visits to the ER for marijuana use only, I am beginning to be more inclined to believe that it infact may be the most likely cause.
| quote: | Originally posted by wick
the amount of weed you would need to smoke IS A LOAD. it is PYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to smoke the amount! as Dj Fuq said before, you would pass out LONGGGGGGGGGG before u would overdose on weed.
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People usually pass out long before they would fatally overdose on alcohol, yet some of them miraculously manage to do so. |
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| wick |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
People usually pass out long before they would fatally overdose on alcohol, yet some of them miraculously manage to do so. |
no, they dont pass out long before they would fatally overdose on alcohol. the amount of alcohol you would need to pass out on IS VERY close to the amount of alchol you would need to die from. please go away. you have no idea what you're talking about.
with weed. the amount you would need to smoke to pass out on is still NO WAY NEAR the amount you would need to smoke to die from. |
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| anuneventrade |
I had quite the bad experience that put me off pot forever.
I had gone over to my neighbors house to say hi and they were rollin' a blunt and asked me to join. I took two hits and went back to my apartment, feeling more ed up than I ever had in my entire life and I had no clue why. Time had no meaning. I sat down in a chair and my roommate said that I didn't move for about two hours. She kept checking to see if I was still breathing.
I had dyed my roommates hair earlier that night a dark purple colour. All of a sudden I saw the dye on the floor and I started flipping out, thinking I was bleeding. I started screaming at the top of my lungs and I ran into the bathroom, scratching myself, pulling at my hair, ripping off my clothes, going crazy. After realizing that I wasn't bleeding, I went into my room and laid down on the bed and waited until the world stopped spinning.
The next day I found out the pot had been laced with PCP. I never smoked pot again after that night. |
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| occrider |
Your line of reasoning is scientifically incorrect.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Fuq
These are the facts:
1 a man is dead
2 he had a headache the day before he died
3 he was a heavy cannabis user
4 there is no evidence that cannabis killed him
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There is evidence that cannabis killed him as a result of Post-mortem tests revealing a high level of cannabinoids in Maisey's blood with the absence of any other diseases.
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5 cannabis is not toxic anyway
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Irrelevant. Carbon monoxide is non-toxic but can kill you quite easily.
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6 cannabis has never killed anyone
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Irrelevant. 100 years ago nobody could fly, that does not validate the reasoning that one cannot fly.
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7 he had used alcohol before he died
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Quite a rediculous proof considering the nature of your argument. So if someone were to take one hit of a joint and promptly die from congentive heart failure are we to assume that that person died from smoking that joint?
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8 alcohol has killed millions of people
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Irrelevant. AIDS is the leading cause of death in the world. Are we then to assume that every death is as a result of AIDS?
However, in order to dispel this line of reasoning:
"Coroner Michael Howells said Mr Maisey was free from disease and had not drunk any alcohol for at least 48 hours before his death in August last year."
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100...jectid=13836296
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9 there are several bs stories like this per year that always get disproven
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Irrelevant. If I put forth 10 bogus stories about ether killing people does that make it any less invalid as a method of death when it does happen?
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The chances of this being bs are much higher than the chances of cannabis having killed him, i would say. It would probably be possible to die from smoking cannabis if u were allergic to it, but he had been smoking far too long for that to have been the case. |
Through this statement alone, you acknowledge the POSSIBILITY of cannabis killing him. Though you state it is highly improbable, can that not be the reason why this is the FIRST documented case of a death? Therefore, why obtusely declare that it CANNOT happen as opposed to declaring that it could POSSIBLY happen under the right circumstances? I mean come on ... it's like beleiving in god. |
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| tu_face |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Fuq
This particular story is so ing obviously untrue (notice the typical lack of details) that i cant believe ANYONE believes it. Even most of the prohibitionists ive talked to since this started dont believe it. |
and you would be right to think so..
here, the laws are about to be relaxed regarding cannabis, and the government's advisor on drugs even said that this particular story was bollocks.
occrider: so he got stoned, and then died, doesn't mean he died of cannabis poisening. in fact, the exact result of the post mortem issued by the coroner was 'death due to mis-adventure', and not 'death due to cannabinol toxicosis' :) |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by tu_face
occrider: so he got stoned, and then died, doesn't mean he died of cannabis poisening. in fact, the exact result of the post mortem issued by the coroner was 'death due to mis-adventure', and not 'death due to cannabinol toxicosis' :) |
It's nice how you take a part of one sentence out of the context.
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The cause of death was registered as cannabis toxicity.
Mr Howells, the coroner for Pembrokeshire, recorded a verdict of death by misadventure because Mr Maisey had died while taking part in an illegal activity. |
So, not quite what you said it was. I guess a heroin overdose can too be called a death by misadventure because it is also an illegal activity. |
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| tu_face |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
It's nice how you take a part of one sentence out of the context.
So, not quite what you said it was. I guess a heroin overdose can too be called a death by misadventure because it is also an illegal activity. |
where did i remove anything from its original context..? i did not quote him i was merely replying to what he said. either way, if the bloody government's advisor on the matter thinks its bollocks, then that is good enough for me.
death by fatal overdose is generally denoted as that on a death certificate. |
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| scuddle |
| BULL!!!!!, that is such BULL!!! |
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