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SF Marrying Gays against CA Law (pg. 4)
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| JayD |
Good discussion so I wont close this yet even though there are some hostile people here.
Let me start off by saying that in religion, the lord looks down upon homosexuality (as stated in the bible & ect). Homosexuality is immoral to more than many, and the fact is that it exist and will continue to.
What would same sex marragies cause that isnt there now? The difference is documents stating that you're maried (resulting in benifits married couples have) & being it more to the public eye. I also think that with this law being passed, alot of people that strongly dissagree with this think in some way passing this law would cause in some weird way cause homosexuality to be "official" or something of the sort. The way I look at it is that homosexuality exists and will continue to with or without marraige.
This is not to say that I think that homosexuality is right, because I do not. To me there is nothing better than to have a beautiful person of the opposite sex to love and spend your life with. Be it race, culture, or anything else. There is no reason why I nor anyone else should be allowed to do so. If you love someone why be denied this right? To have this right taken away from me or not given to me because of ethnics or religion would be just wrong. Thats just the way my brain works. Again, I think it is wrong to ignore the fact that homosexuals think exactly like I think (but the opposite for obvious reasons) and I think that that's what homosexuals are trying to put across. I feel that they believe that it's wrong for them not to be able to feel the same way and do the same. Thats just the way that thier brain works.
If there were some type of shot or "cure" that homosexuals could take not to be homosexual, then things could be different. The thing is, there's not. People want to be happy. Homosexual or not. So I understand where they are comming from.
Now to smokes comment, there's a way about showing your opinion without being hostile. If you think it's wrong, there's no problem with that, but please go about it the right way. There are tons of people (like was stated earlier) that thought mixed race marriage was wrong and should not be allowed, and there are still those who think so today. Although its not that big of an issue today as it was then (see my comments above).
JaY |
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| arctic |
| quote: | Originally posted by JayD
Let me start off by saying that in religion, the lord looks down upon homosexuality (as stated in the bible & ect). Homosexuality is immoral to more than many, and the fact is that it exist and will continue to. |
What do you mean by in religion? I assume that you mean Christianity, and considering the fact that only around 33% of the world's population is Christian, quite frankly that doesn't hold much weight. I'd have to see specific references to the holy books of Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam, Judaism and so forth before I believed that 'In religion' homosexuality is considered wrong. I'm almost certain that there are no such passages in the writings of Buddha, hence Buddhists not looking down on gays as Christians seem to do.
| quote: | | This is not to say that I think that homosexuality is right, because I do not. |
What's wrong with it?
| quote: | | If there were some type of shot or "cure" that homosexuals could take not to be homosexual, then things could be different. The thing is, there's not. People want to be happy. Homosexual or not. So I understand where they are comming from. |
To me, that makes no sense. There is nothing to 'fix' in the first place. There is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuality, have you considered the fact that gays might actually want to be gay, and may not want to take a 'cure', even if it were available. Quite, frankly, I don't think that would solve the problem at all.
Overall, I agree with what you're saying, I'm just curious as to why you evidently have no problems respecting, accepting and understanding gays, yet still hold the positions (As outlines above) that you do. I'm not attacking you in any way, I'm merely curious. :) |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by smokeape
You really think homosexuals can reproduce??? When homo males copulate the only things I've heard of being produced are a sore and a big turd. So which one are you?
:D
[[[smoke]]] |
You must be the biggest idiot in the US next to your president. Too bad you are a dying thought...your kids are going to be surrounded with hate if you teach them to hate as well.
You should have been the cum your dad swallowed! |
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| DaveSZ |
| quote: | Originally posted by JayD
Good discussion so I wont close this yet even though there are some hostile people here.
Let me start off by saying that in religion, the lord looks down upon homosexuality (as stated in the bible & ect). Homosexuality is immoral to more than many, and the fact is that it exist and will continue to.
What would same sex marragies cause that isnt there now? The difference is documents stating that you're maried (resulting in benifits married couples have) & being it more to the public eye. I also think that with this law being passed, alot of people that strongly dissagree with this think in some way passing this law would cause in some weird way cause homosexuality to be "official" or something of the sort. The way I look at it is that homosexuality exists and will continue to with or without marraige.
This is not to say that I think that homosexuality is right, because I do not. To me there is nothing better than to have a beautiful person of the opposite sex to love and spend your life with. Be it race, culture, or anything else. There is no reason why I nor anyone else should be allowed to do so. If you love someone why be denied this right? To have this right taken away from me or not given to me because of ethnics or religion would be just wrong. Thats just the way my brain works. Again, I think it is wrong to ignore the fact that homosexuals think exactly like I think (but the opposite for obvious reasons) and I think that that's what homosexuals are trying to put across. I feel that they believe that it's wrong for them not to be able to feel the same way and do the same. Thats just the way that thier brain works.
If there were some type of shot or "cure" that homosexuals could take not to be homosexual, then things could be different. The thing is, there's not. People want to be happy. Homosexual or not. So I understand where they are comming from.
Now to smokes comment, there's a way about showing your opinion without being hostile. If you think it's wrong, there's no problem with that, but please go about it the right way. There are tons of people (like was stated earlier) that thought mixed race marriage was wrong and should not be allowed, and there are still those who think so today. Although its not that big of an issue today as it was then (see my comments above).
JaY |
Well I was raised Catholic, though I refuse to become an official member of that church, and I don't recall Jesus saying anything against homosexuals. Yes I know in the Old Testament there is plenty of homo bashing.:) |
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| {b.s.e.} |
| quote: |
Well I was raised Catholic, though I refuse to become an official member of that church, and I don't recall Jesus saying anything against homosexuals. Yes I know in the Old Testament there is plenty of homo bashing |
I think there's something homosexual about kneeling infront of the man married to God with your mouth open... |
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| The Greek |
ok i read everyones statements. (excuse the lack of punctuatiion) i have similar views with jay d. we have two things here - civil unions, and marriage under a certain religion. just like you can get married politically or religiously. now i see no problem with allowing civil unions or "political weddings" because they are in no way violating any specific teaching. you want to get married and youre gay? thats fine. the problem lies in with the religion. you cant expect the government to start forcing any churches that refuse to marry gays because then youre violating seperation of church and state and also freedom of religion. you just cant impose such a thing on a independantly functioning body like a religion. that would be just as wrong as not allowing them to get married in the first place. but why the insistence on getting married religiously? its not necessary and it cant be imposed unless the actual religion in question changes their doctrine.
now being gay doesnt make you any less capable than any other person. but theres a reason why people are straight - to procriate the species. now overpopulation is a problem, yes, but thats what we were meant to do and i dont see this stopping unless theres some kind of major disaster or government intervention. this is why i at least consider gay people not "normal" in the sense that humans are meant by nature to seek out the opposite sex. now dont jump all over me with this word "normal" because i dont mean anything malicious. im just trying to represent the difference that is there.
so to sumarize - gay people are fine. they want to get married? let them unless they expect to change a religion in the process, thats up to the individual religions. i have no problem with gay people but yes i think its not nature meant. it doesnt make them inferior, but lets not deny this truth. |
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| tranceaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by arctic
What do you mean by in religion? I assume that you mean Christianity, and considering the fact that only around 33% of the world's population is Christian, quite frankly that doesn't hold much weight. I'd have to see specific references to the holy books of Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam, Judaism and so forth before I believed that 'In religion' homosexuality is considered wrong. I'm almost certain that there are no such passages in the writings of Buddha, hence Buddhists not looking down on gays as Christians seem to do.
What's wrong with it?
To me, that makes no sense. There is nothing to 'fix' in the first place. There is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuality, have you considered the fact that gays might actually want to be gay, and may not want to take a 'cure', even if it were available. Quite, frankly, I don't think that would solve the problem at all.
Overall, I agree with what you're saying, I'm just curious as to why you evidently have no problems respecting, accepting and understanding gays, yet still hold the positions (As outlines above) that you do. I'm not attacking you in any way, I'm merely curious. :) |
i know islam has a worst stand then christianity on gays..i used to live in egypt a mostly muslim country..u r not even allowedto be gay..if u r gay u would be made fun of,harrased and even beaten up..i think most of the religious people r against it because it would be like accepting sin..thats why they have a strong opposition to it..i do not think u will find a single religion that accepts gays...other than religious reason i dont see a reason not to..specially with marriages these days..i think marriage was made as a celebration of a woman giving herself to a man..and transfering from a girl to a woman..a celebration of that bond and starting a new life together..that was then..NOW..couples have sex like millon times before marriage,they already live together,might already have children. the only point of marriage these days is just to have a party and celebrate with family..but life is no different after marriage than before. |
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| Lost Inhibition |
The section of the Bible in question:
| quote: | Romans 2:26 - 27
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their woman did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that reward of which their error which was due |
Now, theyre are 4 things about this section we need to consider:
1. This excerpt is part of an explanation on how people will eventually change the word of God into lies to please their own desires. theyre is a lot more, and only analyzing the full text will get you a better idea of what Paul the apostle is talking about.
2. The source above is coming from a King James version of the Bible. Because this version is known to be an altered text, i wouldnt take something for face value without proper research.
3. Paul is an apostle, but he's also is indeed human. Therefore its hard to differentiate whats Divine and what his own opinion.
and finally 4. This is the New Testament. In Christianity, the new testament, the new gospel, replaces the old one (old testament)
As a firm believer in God and Christ, i cant say I believe that Homosexuality is right because I lack the knowledge on that subject. In my mind, the act of homosexuality is a sin of the flesh, just like prostitution or adultery or general promiscuity. That doesnt bar me from communicating with homosexuals or taking away their rights. We all sin, i have no authority to judge how another person goes about their life. However, until I discover something that either allows or condones those acts with the utmost truthfulness, all i can do at this point is speculate and turn to God for answers. |
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| JayD |
| quote: | | What do you mean by in religion? I assume that you mean Christianity, and considering the fact that only around 33% of the world's population is Christian, quite frankly that doesn't hold much weight. I'd have to see specific references to the holy books of Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam, Judaism and so forth before I believed that 'In religion' homosexuality is considered wrong. I'm almost certain that there are no such passages in the writings of Buddha, hence Buddhists not looking down on gays as Christians seem to do. |
Christianity yes. Other im not too sure of. Will have to check it out.
| quote: | | I think there's something homosexual about kneeling infront of the man married to God with your mouth open... |
Not at all. Though current events may make others think differently. Thats not to say that everyone is the same though.
| quote: | To me, that makes no sense. There is nothing to 'fix' in the first place. There is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuality, have you considered the fact that gays might actually want to be gay, and may not want to take a 'cure', even if it were available. Quite, frankly, I don't think that would solve the problem at all.
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Obviously. As with everything else, there are those who are proud of being homosexual and there are those who dont.
| quote: | | What's wrong with it? |
In my opinion I just dont think its right. I stated why in that paragraph. Consider me bias because I am not gay, so I just do not have that train of thought that a homosexual may have towards another homosexual. Just not my thing dude. No offense. All in all i'm just not homophobic person, never have been one.
Example:
Someone dies, you think its wrong for them to be taken from you. But this person is not around anymore, so you have to come to terms that there gone. Some people take death good, others dont, some just accept death all together as a part of life.
On the other hand, when it comes to certain subjects, you also have those cases where people dont care and are happy that a person died because of what they think is wrong or right.
Understand?
JaY |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by JayD
Understand? |
i didn't, in any way :conf: :conf:
what exactly is wrong with beeing gay? and what's exactly the difference between two men beeing in love and one man and one woman? |
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| arctic |
| quote: | Originally posted by JayD
Christianity yes. Other im not too sure of. Will have to check it out.
In my opinion I just dont think its right. I stated why in that paragraph. Consider me bias because I am not gay, so I just do not have that train of thought that a homosexual may have towards another homosexual. Just not my thing dude. No offense. All in all i'm just not homophobic person, never have been one.
Example:
Someone dies, you think its wrong for them to be taken from you. But this person is not around anymore, so you have to come to terms that there gone. Some people take death good, others dont, some just accept death all together as a part of life.
On the other hand, when it comes to certain subjects, you also have those cases where people dont care and are happy that a person died because of what they think is wrong or right. |
No doubt Islam will have a holy decree against it, although to be honest I have no idea about Hinduism, Judaism and so on. I don't think Buddhism has any teachings on the matter, I don't think it's seen as an issue/problem for them.
I'm not sure if I like your analogy, but I'll let it slide. :p
I understand if you disapprove of it from a religious viewpoint, but otherwise I can't see how one would justify it.
| quote: | Originally posted by tranceaholic
i know islam has a worst stand then christianity on gays..i used to live in egypt a mostly muslim country..u r not even allowedto be gay..if u r gay u would be made fun of,harrased and even beaten up..i think most of the religious people r against it because it would be like accepting sin..thats why they have a strong opposition to it..i do not think u will find a single religion that accepts gays...other than religious reason i dont see a reason not to..specially with marriages these days..i think marriage was made as a celebration of a woman giving herself to a man..and transfering from a girl to a woman..a celebration of that bond and starting a new life together..that was then..NOW..couples have sex like millon times before marriage,they already live together,might already have children. the only point of marriage these days is just to have a party and celebrate with family..but life is no different after marriage than before. |
Yeah, I don't think we have too many Muslims around, so it's unlikely that a serious discussion with regards to the Koran will happen. Quite frankly I stopped listening to anything Muslims said that they justified with the Koran after seeing saw the passage in which wife beating and sexual discrimination is clearly justified and encouraged. But yeah, I can't see why gays should be denied the same legal rights that married couples get, aside from religious reasons. Since I have no religion, I really can't stand it when people try and deny them basic rights because they're 'attacking the sanctity of marriage' or other theistic reasons. Quite frankly, I think the 'sanctity of marriage' is long gone. Just take a quick look at the divorce rate, pre marital sex (Not that there's anything wrong with pre marital sex, I'm simply using it as an example).
By the way, I believe Buddhism accepts gays, sexual orientation and sexual acts don't really seem to have much relevance when it comes to Buddha's teachings. I'm not even aware of him commenting on the matter. To be honest, i suspect he might have simply regarded the issue as irrelevant and refused to answer the question if pressed on it. |
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| JayD |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
i didn't, in any way :conf: :conf:
what exactly is wrong with beeing gay? and what's exactly the difference between two men beeing in love and one man and one woman? |
Meaning that people look at things from different POV (Point Of View) when it comes to different things, more things than others. Not to tie it up with being homosexual, it was just an example of different POV's.
I dont know if that second part of the question was aimed towards me, but if it was just a couple of things to clear up.
Did I say there was a difference or are you making assumptions? If anything I think I actually stated the exact opposite.
JaY |
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