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At least 186 killed in Madrid bombings. (pg. 2)
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| imokruok |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
I know ETA usually is quick to take responsibility for its events, Al Qaeda on the otherhand doens't. |
Ambassador Dennis Ross was on TV this morning saying that it was probably ETA, but you can't discount al Qaeda involvment. Al Qaeda has been "franchising" their terror, as evidenced by some links between muslim fundamentalists and the IRA in Northern Ireland, and the current links with Iraqi internal terror groups.
I tend to agree with his conclusions - it was probably ETA, but who knows who was helping them out. |
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| Juanma |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
How can you complain about such things happening?
Afterall it's Spain's fault. How can someone blame the poor desperate people of the Basque, don't they know they have been severly oppressed for centuries? Spain should stop using force and preventing the Basque from living freely if they want an end to violence.
If the Spanish want to Basque to stop, they should remove every Spanish settlement in the Basque region and remove their police stations. At least then they would not be a severly occupied by the Inquistors. :eyes:
:whip: :whip:
For anyone that knows me, you know I don't mean any of the things above. However, this should be how most Europeans react to this event if they would like to remain compatiable with their other world views.:mad:
Today though is a great tradgey for Spain, and I send my condolences. Although people say Basque, it could be terror related. I know ETA usually is quick to take responsibility for its events, Al Qaeda on the otherhand doens't. |
THERE IS NO ANY REASON IN THIS WORLD THAT CAN JUSTIFY THIS SLAUGHTER |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
Yoepus: Your analogy would be *totally spot on* if:
- Basques didn't have the same rights as anybody else in Spain,
- Spanish police and military regularly launched missiles into Basque villages,
- a majority of Basques wanted seperation from Spain, and
- Spanish authorities was confiscating land owned by Basques and built ugly and dangerous walls there. |
Of course its spot on, the Basques have been discriminated against for centuries, no one will hire them, they can't run for office and McDonalds won't let them speak Basque` if they work for them.
Spain controls this territory illegally, the Basque once had their own independent nation in the Basque country and the brutal Spanish inqusitors took control if it in an illegal aggressive war. They have built many walls there, some of which are ugly, mostly around their houses... but still.
Obviously I can go on and on with this dumb analogy but I won't. The point here is that terrorism thrives even in the most illegitimate of cases.
In fact, you actually make my real point for me: if Palestinians had the same rights as Israelis, if Israel didn't launch regular missle raids into Palestinian villages, if the majority of Palestinians still didn't want independence, and if Israel did not confiscate land owned by Palestinians and build ugly and dangerous walls there, even then after all that there would still be terrorism.
So after understanding terrorism is not the effect of an 'occupation' or violated rights, but the causes as witness of this example, shouldn't your understanding change with the facts?
| quote: | Originally posted by Juanma
THERE IS NO ANY REASON IN THIS WORLD THAT CAN JUSTIFY THIS SLAUGHTER |
I agree with you completely. However many here do not. :( |
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| imokruok |
Interesting story from the UPI wires on why this might not be ETA:
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID...11-112725-1601r
"As one German intelligence officer lamented, 'now the war has reached Europe.'"
| quote: |
First, ETA generally warns Spanish authorities moments before launching their attacks in which civilians are likely to be harmed. This, obviously, was not the case on Thursday.
Second, ETA traditionally targets representatives of the government or the administration, such as policemen, the military, magistrates or even journalists who oppose them.
Third, ETA customarily selects "symbolic" targets, such as military barracks and administrative buildings. Although ETA's largest attack to date was in 1987 against a supermarket in Barcelona that killed 21 people, this was the exception rather than the norm.
Fourth, ETA always claims its attacks. Following any ETA bombing, ETA militants call in a claim to Spanish authorities. This failed to happen this time.
Fifth, ETA has never in the past carried out multiple attacks. According to some sources, at least 10 bombs were detonated almost simultaneously on Thursday.
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
God, Yoepus, you have to turn everything into an Israeli-Palestine debate, don't you? Basques aren't really discriminated against in spain, and their language is recognized as official in their region, if I'm not mistaken.
Anyway, back to the point. It's really difficult to say yet who was behind the attack. ETA is, of course, one of the major suspects, but I wouldn't rule out any Al Quaeda links either, as spain is among the coallition forces. The explosives are akin to those used by ETA, yet the magnitude of the attack and the way it was carried out (multiple attacks, large amounts of civilians targeting) strongly resemble Al Quaeda tactics. Perhaps they worked in collaboration, who knows.
Needless to say, my condolances go to spanish people. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
God, Yoepus, you have to turn everything into an Israeli-Palestine debate, don't you? |
I'm sorry, its just that I am jealous of the sympathies attributed to the Spanish people (which I share) when they are attacked with terror.:( |
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| Shakka |
Interesting. Now they're reporting that detonators were found as well as some arabic stuff with Koranic verses, etc. Forgive me if I don't have all of the details.
Someone else was telling me this morning that they didn't think it was the ETA, as the ETA always gives a warning before they pull off any attacks. |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
I know ETA usually is quick to take responsibility for its events, Al Qaeda on the otherhand doens't. |
you'r wrong here, ETA usally waits some weeks before they takes responisbility for something, but they (as shakka just said) usally warn before their attacks, and they also usally try to avoid unnecesary civilian causltys... so it is rather likely it was al quaida :( |
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| imokruok |
| al Qaeda now claiming responsibility in a letter to Western media outlets. |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
you'r wrong here, ETA usally waits some weeks before they takes responisbility for something, but they (as shakka just said) usally warn before their attacks, and they also usally try to avoid unnecesary civilian causltys... so it is rather likely it was al quaida :( |
Yes, ETA tries to avoid large civilian casualties. After thinking about this one a bit, it looks more and more to me like Al Quaeda was behind this. |
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| TranceGiant |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Yes, ETA tries to avoid large civilian casualties. After thinking about this one a bit, it looks more and more to me like Al Quaeda was behind this. |
more and more hints leading to that suspicion. |
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