|
Terrorist attack in Madrid (pg. 3)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| YaleTrance |
| Oh, and ETA doesn't just want the Basque country to "be recognized", they want full-fledge independence...not to mention the fact that they were hardcore communists back during the cold war. Then again, the radical reaction against Franco was understandable. |
|
|
| PHALPAX |
| quote: | Originally posted by UnBracKo
Atm:
173 deaths
898 wounded persons
It's a terrible thing. The biggest terrorist attack in the Western Europe.
I was in the uni when the professor told us the suspension of the rest of the clases. Then at 12 o'clock we did 5 minutes of silence.
Its a disaster! you ETA!!
All the tv's are showing the images and it's really hard watch all these dead bodies and injuried persons.
The catastroph happened minutes before 8 o'clock and many university students and workers from towns around the capital were going to their respective colleges, business, factories....
I'm very sad :( |
I'm sorry for your country's loss, UnBracKo |
|
|
| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by UnBracKo
Man, nobody knows the why of the acts of ETA. They are stupids! |
Usually, they attack in order to force a independence threaty with the Spanish government, but after the Basque people saying they were against the attack, they wouldn't try to do it near the elections, as far as I believe. They would choose times of greater instability, such as economical/political crisis in order to do it - and they always warn beforehand, don't they?
| quote: | Originally posted by UnBracKo
Just a few weeks ago they emited a official statement saying they won't kill more in Catalonia. Is there a reason for don't kill in Catalonia and in the rest of Spain yes?? I don't see any reason cos' they are still killing in the Basque country, in their country. |
They probably see Catalunya as a country in the same situation as theirs, so this simpathy is comprehensible. Their beef is with the Spanish goverment, that's why they said they would attack Spain only. |
|
|
| UnBracKo |
Basque country and Catalonia are the most autonomous regions of Spain, with own language, own police, own government...
The difference:
BAsque country has a terrorist band who attempt for find the total independence of Euskadi. The majority of ppl want more autonomy, even the independence but without violence.
Catalonia also wants more autonomy but with a democratic way, we don't have any terrorist band for achieve our interests. |
|
|
| Ian^ |
| quote: | Originally posted by YaleTrance
The Basque province has as much autonomy as Catalonia or say, Scotland in your country. Also, ETA hates Madrid more than any other place because it's the capital of the "evil empire".
There's no concrete evidence that it was ETA, but there's no evidence pointing to anything else either. The most important evidence is the fact that ETA has been planning something this huge lately. |
in the British way now, Scotland & Wales are both very independant with their own assemblys & such for making decisions, and bar the major government having lots of scottish mp's, i do see that there will in time be a full independance for them, though how it'd work with the royalty here, i'm not sure.
I understand how Catalunya & Basque areas want their own areas recognised by independance from spain, I know the Mallorquin & Menorquins also are embracing their independance from spain in ways, but obviously since ETA are using the tactics they are & have been, I don't know how it can happen. |
|
|
| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by UnBracKo
Basque country and Catalonia are the most autonomous regions of Spain, with own language, own police, own government... |
I'm aware of this... I thought Galicia (or whatever the name of this place is in English, hehe) was autonomous as well.
| quote: | Originally posted by UnBracKo
The difference:
BAsque country has a terrorist band who attempt for find the total independence of Euskadi. The majority of ppl want more autonomy, even the independence but without violence.
Catalonia also wants more autonomy but with a democratic way, we don't have any terrorist band for achieve our interests. |
There are many more differences between the Basque Country and Catalunya, if you don't mind me pointing out.
The Basque people are not latin, so their identity as "Spanish" is even smaller because of it. And I don't know what was the policy of Franco for Catalonia (about the language and everything else), but I know he was too extreme about the Basque. ETA was created as a counter-pressure, a nationalist uprisal from a dominated land. Not that I'm defending them, but it's not something hard to understand. The region was more developed than the rest of Spain when it was "invaded" or whatever verb you prefer to use, so they felt they were supporting invaders while they didn't have much wealth for themselves anymore.
As for Catalunya, I really don't know what happened there, but it's no use to compare both places, the same way you can't compare two different individuals. |
|
|
| Ian^ |
on Spanish football (shown in the uk live) 2 weekends ago they were in San Sebastian and on about how a lot of the people couldn't even speak spanish there & didn't want to, and most spoke Basque + some English, surprising how many spoke english that they interviewed out of the fans to be fair.
Obviously I think we need to wait until ETA or whoever admit responsibility, I know with past records it could be them, but I think they deserve to have the chance to own up, and that usually happens, which since they've denied it until now, I don't know how it'll go. Let's hope the city and people can build up again strong though |
|
|
| UnBracKo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Usually, they attack in order to force a independence threaty with the Spanish government, but after the Basque people saying they were against the attack, they wouldn't try to do it near the elections, as far as I believe. They would choose times of greater instability, such as economical/political crisis in order to do it - and they always warn beforehand, don't they? |
ooohh good, to kill innocent ppl is a good way to force the independence???:conf: I would understand it if they kill a political authority but they can't do it cos' they are disistructured.
Now they have a few members cause the last good police interventions and they have done the most easy attack. It's so easy put a bag full of explosives in a train and go out... after 4 attempts they achieved their purpose. |
|
|
| YaleTrance |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
I'm aware of this... I thought Galicia (or whatever the name of this place is in English, hehe) was autonomous as well.
There are many more differences between the Basque Country and Catalunya, if you don't mind me pointing out.
The Basque people are not latin, so their identity as "Spanish" is even smaller because of it. And I don't know what was the policy of Franco for Catalonia (about the language and everything else), but I know he was too extreme about the Basque. ETA was created as a counter-pressure, a nationalist uprisal from a dominated land. Not that I'm defending them, but it's not something hard to understand. The region was more developed than the rest of Spain when it was "invaded" or whatever verb you prefer to use, so they felt they were supporting invaders while they didn't have much wealth for themselves anymore.
As for Catalunya, I really don't know what happened there, but it's no use to compare both places, the same way you can't compare two different individuals. |
Well Franco did crack down on the Catalan language and Catalunyan culture probably just as much as he did on the Basque. Franco's policy on culture was defending the homogeinity and "unity" of ONE Spain, the one that triumphed in the Civil War. Remember that Barcelona and Catalunya were bastions of the Spanish republic, they were the last region to fight against the Falange. Therefore, they were on the losing side of the war.
I think the comparison is fair enough, Catalunya was more developed and industrial than Castile too. They have the autonomist movement history in common with similar roots. But what you say about ethnicity is true though, Basques are not Latin, Catalans definitely are, even if they are a bit more "Euro" and less Spanish than the Andalucians or the Castilians.
Galicia is also pretty autonomous, but that province is pretty laid-back and dare I say with my Galician blood, pretty backward too if you compare them to Catalunya and the Basque country. :p |
|
|
| Lira |
Ian^ has a point too... many Basque prefer not to speak Spanish. I used to know a little of the language (had 2 Basque teachers) but forgot it all :( Shame on me.
| quote: | Originally posted by YaleTrance
Well Franco did crack down on the Catalan language and Catalunyan culture probably just as much as he did on the Basque. Franco's policy on culture was defending the homogeinity and "unity" of ONE Spain, the one that triumphed in the Civil War. Remember that Barcelona and Catalunya were bastions of the Spanish republic, they were the last region to fight against the Falange. Therefore, they were on the losing side of the war. |
Oh, I remember this part now :) I've got to study Spanish history :p
| quote: | Originally posted by YaleTrance
Galicia is also pretty autonomous, but that province is pretty laid-back and dare I say with my Galician blood, pretty backward too if you compare them to Catalunya and the Basque country. :p |
Are you galician? :) If you are, props for speaking Spanish, Galician (?) and Portuguese, because it would be quite confusing for most people :cool:
| quote: | Originally posted by UnBracKo
ooohh good, to kill innocent ppl is a good way to force the independence???:conf: I would understand it if they kill a political authority but they can't do it cos' they are disistructured.
Now they have a few members cause the last good police interventions and they have done the most easy attack. It's so easy put a bag full of explosives in a train and go out... after 4 attempts they achieved their purpose. |
I never said it was good to kill people, I'm just saying they're doing it for the pressure. Why not kill political authorities? Good question, maybe popular reaction would be slighter, the government would be even harsher on them. I really don't know, guessing and hoping for a better future is all we can do :( |
|
|
| YaleTrance |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Are you galician? :) If you are, props for speaking Spanish, Galician (?) and Portuguese, because it would be quite confusing for most people :cool:
|
My grandfather is Galician and my grandmother is Asturian. I've been there many times and I can easily understand Galician, but I wouldn't say I'm fluent. Pretty easy language if you know Spanish & Portuguese, but yeah, it gets confusing. |
|
|
| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by YaleTrance
My grandfather is Galician and my grandmother is Asturian. I've been there many times and I can easily understand Galician, but I wouldn't say I'm fluent. Pretty easy language if you know Spanish & Portuguese, but yeah, it gets confusing. |
Interesting :)
Well, gotta go now, nice talking to you, you can all go back on topic now too :D |
|
|
|
|
