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!!!ugly Cars!!! (pg. 8)
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| lMIlk |
sorry to bring you back on topic, but... |
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| biznology |
| Now THATS ugly! ^^ |
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| dvd |
| how about .... taken from local mall with my friend's cam.. here is the link since i didnt bother to make it small =] www20.brinkster.com/dvdevo/vomit.jpg sorry its brinkster..problbay wont work..well its a celica thats gray with a kit thats piss yellow. |
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| cheesenip |
| Korean cars are worse than American cars... |
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| lMIlk |
| lol don't they try to copy |
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| ABTsportsline |
Hey man, no offense taken... i rather like these healthy debates as long as the punches are kept above the belt :D
| quote: | Originally posted by biznology
you claim that civics fall apart, i claim that VWs do, and as you say companies make lemons, so were both right arent we?!? |
I never said civics fall apart. I said they aren't "as good" as the general public makes them out to be. Doesn't mean they aren't good. Just not AS good. The general thought seems to be that Hondas NEVER have problems, which is not the case. Point of the matter is, in fact, that cars like your dads were DURING the period that Honda had its best reliability run. At that same time, VW had its worst. I know reputations are made, but we also have to be open to realize change. When volvo's first hit US shores 40 years ago, they were deathtraps... look at Volvo today - some of the safest cars on the road. Reputations can change, but we need to be open to see this.
| quote: | | as for mudslinging VWs, how? You seem to think that my opinion on them is not up yours cuz youve had 3 of them and 1 honda, and my experience is primarily with hondas. i 'bashed' your company, you 'bash' mine. i wouldnt compare honda to BMW just as i thot comparing mercedes to kia is lame- it frankly doesnt make sense. |
I had 2 VW's and 1 Honda. But as i'm sure you know all it takes is one good ownership experience to make you a friggin mascot and 1 bad one to make you hate another. One thing they taught us in VW service training (don't laugh) is that 100 people can have problem free cars, and won't say a thing. The 1 person that has 1 problem is going to be the most vocal, pain in the ass..... (this course was in relation to customer service and CSI reports...) My comment about having had both a Honda and VW is not to say that i'm better than you... it was to say that i've seen and EXPERIENCED (i.e. driven daily, tricked out, and lived with for months) BOTH of these cars, so i said that my view would be better founded. I understand you have an animosity towards VW's, but what i'm saying is, if you haven't owned one, how can you be so sure? I don't hate Hondas. I just prefer Veedubs.
And my comparison of Honda to BMW was apparently WAYYYY over your head. I'm not talking about them in a street test model for model. If you wanted to, you could compare Kia to Ferrari! Who cares? The point is WHAT the comparison is of. Every car manufacturer is known for something. Ferrari for performance and Kia for economy, for instance. In my last comparison, i was saying how BMW's are known for being really nice, but Hondas are known for being built better. Who cares what costs what? what league their in? THATS THE WHOLE POINT OF MY COMPARISON! Hondas cost less than half of BMWs and are built better. But a Beemer will spank a Honda in the features dept. and the "fun to drive" dept. You can compare VW to Lambo if you want. Compare that Lambo is sick performance. Yeah it will spank a VW at the track... ridiculously. But the VW is a LOT cheaper, has more creature comforts, and was most likely built better.
| quote: | | this is a problem in these discussions, i was limiting it to VW/Honda cause whether you consider it an 'entry level luxury-car' or a german semi-luxury econobox- cause without the GTI- thats all a golf is. last time i checked a civic si could be had for 18000 new, and thats several years ago, the GTI is 23gs, now that in itself is not a good comparison. ok im losing my train of thot here...ill jus stop. |
ok, now you're comparing apples to oranges. First off, the GTI GLX (the VR6 model) is just over 22 G's (not 23)... but thats peanuts at this range. This car you have to compare to the Acura RSX Type S, b/c that is the class its in. The RSX Type S costs 23,5 or 24G's if i'm not mistaken, almost 2G's more than the GLX GTI.... the RSX Type S has 200 HP, the GTI GLX has 204 HP. they both have alloy wheels, sunroofs, leather, power everything. The GTI has 6 airbags though. Climate control, rain sensing wipers, self-dimming mirrors, 300 Watt Monsoon system with CD changer, blah blah blah.... these are the typical german useless-but-cool stuff that come on german cars. These cars are pretty similar, it just comes down to personal taste, and maybe budget.
The turbo GTI is in the exact same price area as the Civic SI, and outperforms it in safety and on the track (i know the civic SI has 160 HP , but you need something called torque to get you moving.) The GTi turbo has 180 horsepower and around the same torque. All Golfs/Jettas/GTI/New Beetle ALL received 5-star crash safety ratings for both front passengers, (the highest score you can get), plus all pass the not-necessary-yet-in-the-USA rollover test. Again, i know they aren't the best cars in the world. I am just defending an auto manufacturer that no one seems to know about... the facts, thats all. I used to think VW's were just "allright" till i became a salesman. I saw the videos of how they make the cars, learned every inch about the cars in training, and you see how much thought goes into everything.
oh and BTW - the Golf is NOT an econobox! This is another common misconception. Just b/c it is the lowest model does not mean its an econobox. The car comes with everything except a potent motor. You still have 6 airbags, one-touch power windows with pinch protection, power locks, full size spare, full factory alarm with remotes, tilt/telescopic steering wheel, 8 speaker system (that sounds excellent), ABS standard, etc..... the list goes on.
The Civic is the econobox. In a car where A/C was an option up till a couple of years ago, ABS was not even available until this year, even CASSETTE player was an option (-it was on my EX, and they installed it down by the cupholders!) Sure, you can load up a civic, but in a model where the base car is REALLY stripped down, i call that an econobox. The Golf is better equipped than half the Japanese/Korean cars on the road! But this really isn't the point. My point is that the price of the car is the sum of its parts... goes for all cars. Still don't see how a Golf that costs 16,500 and has all that is overpriced.
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>>my thots, i almost nevah judge cars on ugly alone, so maybe i should have never voiced my opinion here. Case in point: I HATED the old Integras (pre-RSX) cuz of the way they looked- butt ugly with those beady little headlights. After getting to drive a 2001 gsr tho, I was sold. My Dad has a 89 Civic Si that looks like balls, but its not a ty car driven by idiots - its a tight package. People think that people who buy Hondas are idiots cuz the cars are 'slow' or 'ugly' or NOT wannabe luxury cars. Honda engineering, some of the best in the world- is simple, straightforward and useful. The package this creates is a completely balanced one in performace, ride, looks, and economy. Most importantly this ALSO has nothing to do with morons who buy cheap aftermarket to make their cars loud, not fast, or ugly...late/
ABT i never meant to single you out as to 'sling mud' in your direction, you were just put up the 'For Sale..' joke making me think you had some serious animosity, sorry man.
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I hate the old integras too.... as a matter of fact the only integra i ever liked was the 1993 GSR.... i have driven a few and i thought the cockpit was worlds better than the newer one, plus the bodystyle was pretty tight. If i threw you off with the for sale sign bit, i'm sorry. This is b/c of where i live. If you lived down here, i can GUARANTEE you'd feel the same way! Ever see "fast and the furious?" yeah, i know you have ;) ... well, thats my town but without all the speed... just the stupid loud cars.
Around here its the ing attitude that i can seriously do without. Every boy down here has his civic/integra/or any other "import" (, even domestic cars are bastardized down here, like neons and cavaliers), and they put the clear taillights on them, lower them by cutting the springs, get the garbage-can exhaust, big wing, hundreds of stickers, then try to race everyone and their grandma, and think they own the in streets! THAT is what pisses me off, especially when none of them aren't even fast. Sure, you get your occasional Civic with a jap-spec spoon motor in it, but those are the guys that never mess with anyone and who aren't cocky. Yeah i've got friends who have a T3/T4 on their Integra... RS Head with GSR manifold - i know the tricks... i have friends who do that. I got no problem with them b/c they are cool about it. Its all the other a-holes out there that create the stereotype that you see me acting out upon here.
Fact is, what i said was a true story. My car isn't the fastest thing out there. I've gotten my ass handed to me by a few turbo or nitrous Integras and a turbo civic. But NEVER a naturally-aspirated one. Then again, my car is stock and i'm not really into modding the engine and whatnot. If you're driving a ferrari, then you have every right to race around and think you are great. If you're driving a civic DX with "SI" DOHC stickers all over it, then you deserve to get slapped!.... especially when you have a SOHC car. THIS is where the collective angst of this thread is directed towards.
Hope this cleared things up. Sorry for the long post to everyone else.
Cheers,
-ABT- |
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| Miss Proximus |
| I think the Ford Ka is the ugliest car on the planet :p |
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| dvd |
| I just want to say excellent posting by ABT...now i should really talk to you about what car should i get. Civic or Mirage/lancer.. |
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| Dmatrox |
I would get the lancer evol VI or VII :D
The evo VI has:
-340 BHP.
-Acceleration from 0 to 62 mph 4.0 Seconds.
-Active Yaw Control. (whatever this is)
its around $70,000 (CAN) |
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| biznology |
| quote: | Originally posted by dvd
I just want to say excellent posting by ABT...now i should really talk to you about what car should i get. Civic or Mirage/lancer.. |
Well it depends what you are looking for really. Are you looking for something unique right now? Cause that would be the Lancer. Its also ALOT better than the Mirage - dont get one of those - features and price wise. Jus remember that it AINT 4wd and turbo like the EVO, its just a better Mirage. From a money standpoint, a loaded Lancer may be a bit cheaper than a good Civic, but I would choose a Civic if you will be paying for repairs, gas, etc. cuz they generally have really good track records on this stuff. I have heard people having problems with Galants, and this IS a different car, but generally manufacturers dont have specific problems in only one car, so they could carry over to the Lancer too. Personally, as with all cars I say drive both, read the info, and choose. The Lancer only has 120hp, but 130lb/ft torque - where the new Civic Si(when it comes out) should have 160+hp, with near 100lb/ft torque prolly, consistent with the older ones too. This is just what Id say...late/
OK i just realized you were asking ABT, cuz you think im full of most likely, but i think this is a pretty fair comparison... |
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| biznology |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dmatrox
I would get the lancer evol VI or VII :D
The evo VI has:
-340 BHP.
-Acceleration from 0 to 62 mph 4.0 Seconds.
-Active Yaw Control. (whatever this is)
its around $70,000 (CAN) |
That Lancer isnt legal in the US, which if im not mistaken is where dvd is from...right? Unless you are only gonna race/rally it...late/ |
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| ABTsportsline |
| quote: | Originally posted by dvd
I just want to say excellent posting by ABT...now i should really talk to you about what car should i get. Civic or Mirage/lancer.. |
hey dvd, i would have to pretty much agree with the biz over there... both are pretty good cars (drop use of the name mirage, b/c that is a POS...)
I would recommend test driving both, and see which you like better. I really like the looks of the new Lancer, but its record with reliability is unproven since its a new model. And if you use the Mirage as a comparison for its reliability, its spotty at best. But it has a pretty decent warranty from what i've heard, and it is a LOT cheaper than the civic.
Also depends what you want to do with the car. If its "just a car" to you, the Lancer would probably be a better bet. If you were looking to make it a "racer" and do that thing, the civic might be a better bet b/c it has more power, and more aftermarket parts are available for it. Civics also seem to respond pretty good to mods, not really affecting the "running reliability".
In the end, it comes down to what your preference is.
Cheers!
-ABT- |
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