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Israelis kill man in wheelchair (pg. 4)
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| Some One |
I sometimes wonder if Palestinian is one of those "motivational" speakers that speaks in rallies in Gaza and the West bank.
His argument seems to be very consistent:
1) Israel started all of the wars and the "innocent" pali's were always being oppressed and occupied :rolleyes:
2) while under occupation, pali's should always fight it, using tactics like suicide bombings and other savage acts
I think the position of Hamas Leader is open, with ideologies like that they will welcome you with open hands. why waste your time arguing on the internet when you can be giving these speeches to people who are dumb enough to actually believe it. |
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| DJ Rat 187 |
| well saying that this is done by other armies as well can be refuted by the larger picture of the fact that Israel is wrong in the whole Palestine vs. Israel conflict |
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| Palestinian |
"Arabs attack Israel in hopes of destorying the nation under the guise of 'liberating' the territories"?
One more time: Israel is the fourth strongest military power in the world. It's also economically and politically powerful and has the backing of the United States.
Palestinians are refugees living in poverty, denied their rights and their independence, denied their existence and their transfer is often debated in Israeli politics.
So when they tell you that Palestinians are attacking Israel in the hopes of destroying it, remember this. It's a myth. Palestinians may be poor but they're not stupid. They know very well they can't destroy Israel. Again, you cannot have peace if you don't let go of the territories and of your paranoia that's causing death and suffering. You're expressing fear. Holding on to something illegaly because you're afraid. Afraid to let go of the power of enslaving someone else.
I'll take what you said as a complement, Some one. Maybe I should become a "motivational" speaker.
I'm not saying that Palestinians should fight occupation by suicide bombings, that's not up to me, I'm not living their unfortunate life. It's not up to you either while you sit on your computer and sip your coffee, go to school or work and feed your family. It's not up to you at all. I'm telling you that occupation does this to people, to refugees who have longed for independence and return for decades. Occupation will be fought whether I like it or not. Because as long as you deny someone his or her RIGHTS, they will fight you, by any means possible. These are the laws of human nature. |
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| Flotser |
| quote: | Originally posted by Palestinian
So when they tell you that Palestinians are attacking Israel in the hopes of destroying it, remember this. It's a myth. Palestinians may be poor but they're not stupid. They know very well they can't destroy Israel. Again, you cannot have peace if you don't let go of the territories and of your paranoia that's causing death and suffering. You're expressing fear. Holding on to something illegaly because you're afraid. Afraid to let go of the power of enslaving someone else. |
Palestinians are not stupid. but they are brainwashed. and behind their actions stand mostly fanatic and VERY WELL financed terror organizaions, powerfull religious leaders & arab countries with igoistic interests.
the truth is, and you know it - fightng the occupation now IS stupid. beacuse in OSLO agreements (even during horrible suicide bombings), Israel already proved itself going big steps towards the libaration of the palestinians. Hammas & Arafat brought to the end of the procces.
do i need to prove that one to you? its easy. Yoepus will help me :p
It is stupid to fight occupation - if all logical signes show that it will end as soon as they stop trying blowing themselves up inside israeli basses.
not everything is black&white. Palestinians are commiting suicide bombings & murrder innocent civilians - because they believe, that going this way, they can achieve their goals without signing any agreements. and when i say "they" i mean Arafat, Hammas etc.(the plestinian public holds no power in this dictaturship).
| quote: |
I'm not saying that Palestinians should fight occupation by suicide bombings, that's not up to me, I'm not living their unfortunate life. It's not up to you either while you sit on your computer and sip your coffee, go to school or work and feed your family. It's not up to you at all. I'm telling you that occupation does this to people, to refugees who have longed for independence and return for decades. Occupation will be fought whether I like it or not. Because as long as you deny someone his or her RIGHTS, they will fight you, by any means possible. These are the laws of human nature. |
you are going with your head to the wall. there is no need to fight occupation - not today. the fight is more of an extortion, a blackmail - than a "fight for human rights". |
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| Palestinian |
You just don't get it. The Oslo agreements were a distraction. It was a false "peace process". Israel took as much as it could from the Palestinian territories at the time of Oslo so that when the "peace process" was finished, it would have taken as much land as possible. Why was Israel building settlements during the Oslo "agreements"? Why were more settlements built under the "dovish" Barak than the "hawkish" Netanyahu? Looks like you're the one who's brainwashed.
It is stupid to accept living under occupation and subjugation. And if you lived there, you would think so too. And you also must understand that the Palestinian public IS Fatah, Hamas, PFLP, Islamic Jihad etc. You don't hear about the public being different than the revolutionaries in a revolution. When you have a revolution, the public are the key players who form the different groups to fight for independence. Don't you get that? The civilians themselves create Hamas and keep it on its feet. You can't separate Hamas from the Palestinian civilians.
Palestinians simply believe that they were decieved in ending the first intifada and that it should have continued. Try living there in a refugee camp and then tell me that there is no need to fight occupation. |
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| Flotser |
During and after the OLSO talks palestinians were closer than ever to their independence.
they got security forces, a goverment, an Airport, developing economy, and there were real talks about the land and the division of Jerusalem and much much more. all this was new, never made before. this is the best the palestinains ever achieved.
so ok, the peace talks didnt promise Hammas all that it wished for, but thats not a reason to "fight the occupation". thats a reason to continue the talks - finnally there is real hope.
like i said, its not "fighting occupation" anymore - its blackmailing the Israeli voting public & its goverment to give the palestinians more. "we'll stop killing you if you stop building houses" logic. (and it works, like any good blackmail)
you always say that if israel moves out of all terretories, there would be peace. how can you promise me that, when all those islamic movements dont want to give up the "right of return" of the palestinians back to israeli cities - which ofcourse means the end of the jewish state.
if they dont like something they will keep blowing busses up until they get it.
| quote: | | It is stupid to accept living under occupation and subjugation. And if you lived there, you would think so too. And you also must understand that the Palestinian public IS Fatah, Hamas, PFLP, Islamic Jihad etc. You don't hear about the public being different than the revolutionaries in a revolution. When you have a revolution, the public are the key players who form the different groups to fight for independence. Don't you get that? The civilians themselves create Hamas and keep it on its feet. You can't separate Hamas from the Palestinian civilians. |
Yeah and you cant seperate germans and Nazi movement?.... :rolleyes:
Hammas r-e-a-l-y brainwashes people.
i once saw on the news, a HUGE hall all filled with Hizbulla militants sitting on the floor like statues, repeating the screams of Nassralla:
"death to America, death to America, death to America, death to Israel". moving their hands together like crazy. i saw those pictures and the fiest that came up in my eyes was the speaches of Hitler infront of crazy brainwashed crowds.
Hamas, Islamic Jihad etc, are fanatic groups who use the poor situation of the palestinians to gain power, not to bring the best for palestinians as a nation. |
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| Palestinian |
The Germans and the Nazi movement weren't living under this kind of occupation. Think of our resistance as the Rebels in the Star Wars movies (I can't believe I have to go this far to explain this to you). The civilians create the resistance. The groups don't make us, we make the groups. I'm telling you this as a Palestinian, I know how it is.
During the Oslo talks many other events took place as well. But all I need to say is that there was a settlement building frenzy and more settlements were built under Barak than Netanyahu, nuff said. That's enough reason to resume the intifada.
Under your logic, every revolution was a blackmail. Get real. |
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| Flotser |
| quote: | Originally posted by Palestinian
During the Oslo talks many other events took place as well. But all I need to say is that there was a settlement building frenzy and more settlements were built under Barak than Netanyahu, nuff said. That's enough reason to resume the intifada.
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putting aside all the huge progress because of some settelments?
"so what if we finally have a goverment. so what if we finnaly have a ligalized security force. so what if many of us are allowed to work inside israel now. so what if we even got a nice airport. so what if our independence is closer then ever. ISRAEL HASN'T STOPPED BUILDING SETTELMETS!!! RESUME THE INTIFADA!!! BLOW UP SOME BUSSES"
:stongue:
what kinda logic is that?
land can be returned. people cant.
so yes, this is not a fight agaist occupation and not a fight for independence. its a fight for "we want things to be done our way and timeline or you guys gonna suffer".
maybe there are occasionts in which an "intifada" is neccesery - but thats not the one. |
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| drewfactor |
2 points:
Remember when that palestinian terrorist group (hamas or hezbollah, I can't remember) hijacked that ship and pushed a wheelchair bound old jew into the sea ON PURPOSE!
The palestininan "refugee" situation is a problem created by arab states as well as Israel. What Arab state has offered any help to the palestinian people by way of absorbing the refugees (that are a result of the arab initiated wars)? None. Except to provide weapons and bombs that and contribute to the perpetuation of the "death cult psychosis" that pervades the palestinian cause. |
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| DJ-RED |
The terror from palestinian terrorists won't stop until they have killed every Israeli and occupied Israel...
Every war against Israel was started by the arabs, and Israel kicked their ass! |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-RED
The terror from palestinian terrorists won't stop until they have killed every Israeli and occupied Israel...
Every war against Israel was started by the arabs, and Israel kicked their ass! |
The Yom kippur war almost annihilated Israel. The arabs were winning.
You speak as if ISrael is defending itself without any help....lol Israel is an American military outpost! |
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| TranceGiant |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
The Yom kippur war almost annihilated Israel. The arabs were winning.
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:haha: |
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