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Atheism (pg. 8)
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| Renegade |
lol
Alright, just finished reading your post (took me 20 minutes!) and there's a few things that I'm going to have to say about it, but I've only just woken up (it's 3.30pm here - big night) and I'm just about to go out again now, so I'm not even going to attempt a response at the moment. :D
I'll get up and re-read everything tomorrow when I'm slightly less hazy, and post a response then, after having had 24 hours or so of beard-stroking. :) |
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| KaNoS |
| quote: | Originally posted by Brownitus
And 90% of these idiots claim it was God who told\instructed them to do whatever "bad" things they did. |
how can a teacher say it was god the one that told him to be a jerk with his students?, ur are totally missing my point
| quote: | Originally posted by Brownitus
If you don't believe there's such a thing as right and wrong, you must be heavily intoxicated or just very stupid. No offense, but there is right and there is wrong-- molesting infants, shooting someone for their skin colour, going on a hacking spree with your toolshed goodies at an old folks' home, etc. etc. are all basic examples of the latter. Right and wrong certainly exist-- it is the very theory of a God that angers me because of the sheer fact that there are those out there who would commit such atrocities in the name of the great galactic goblin who will never be proved. |
And the fact that poeple do that for something even stupier like a diferent goverment system, different skin color, or maybe because their are just trouble makers doesnt anger you?
About the right and wrong, maybe i expressed myself wrong. there is some good/evil , but for some people, killing a worm or a cow its an atrocity, for others its as normal as farting.
Probably for you killing a man its an atrocity, for the aztecs, killing a man was no diferent that killing an animal, actually, killing a animal you wouldnt eat was considered a worst offense than killing a man of a diferent tribe.
Can you see how the values of good and evil change so much from culture to culture? Theres no thing that could be considered definitly as wrong, or definitly as good in all cultures. is a matter of perspective, and believes.
What is a crime to one, it isnt to someone in another part of the world, or maybe it isnt to someone that lives next door to you.
Also, have you ever think about the posibility that theres no such think as final judgment? that theres no hell, theres no hell, just a place after death. did you ever thought of the posibility that the judgment thing was just made to help us be more kind between each other? |
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| Aendy |
| Ahh.. religion... my favourite subject. Unfortunatly I wasnt in this thread from the beginning and Iīm not going to read all the msgs. The greatest man ever spoken about religion is the russian author Isaac Asimov. I canīt qoute him but he means that religion is an instrument of power for leaders to keep their people in control. Its easy to revolt against a leader, but it gets harder when the leader (like the pope nowadays) is in direct connection with the God you belive in and worship. That is why we still got religion and why many leaders have been eager to convert to the most popular religon of that time. I suggest you to read about the Fundation not only of itīs theories of religion but also cause its one of the worlds greatest sci-fi works. By the way: "When are you people going to learn? It's not about who's right or wrong. No denomination's nailed it yet, and they never will because they're all too self-righteous to realize that it doesn't matter what you have faith in, just that you have faith. Your hearts are in the right place, but your brains need to wake up." (Dogma, 1999, Kevin Smith) |
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| Izzy |
| quote: | Originally posted by u4ea:[soulstar]
O.O Me-mesmerized?! How so? |
you said "You decide the difference between ignorance and blind happiness."
who am i to decide for her? am i her ... god? but even by not taking the desicion, i kinda am because it means she's set on her path. |
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| Brownitus |
| quote: | Originally posted by KaNoS
how can a teacher say it was god the one that told him to be a jerk with his students?, ur are totally missing my point |
Wow man, that's astonishing. You must not have read the portion of my post addressing this point at ALL-- what you just stated there made no sense, sorry.
| quote: | | And the fact that poeple do that for something even stupier like a diferent goverment system, different skin color, or maybe because their are just trouble makers doesnt anger you? |
What? What ARE you talking about, man? In reference to my expressed opinions and post(s), this has no place in a response. Maybe you aren't understanding my posts?
| quote: | About the right and wrong, maybe i expressed myself wrong. there is some good/evil , but for some people, killing a worm or a cow its an atrocity, for others its as normal as farting.
Probably for you killing a man its an atrocity, for the aztecs, killing a man was no diferent that killing an animal, actually, killing a animal you wouldnt eat was considered a worst offense than killing a man of a diferent tribe.
Can you see how the values of good and evil change so much from culture to culture? Theres no thing that could be considered definitly as wrong, or definitly as good in all cultures. is a matter of perspective, and believes.
What is a crime to one, it isnt to someone in another part of the world, or maybe it isnt to someone that lives next door to you. |
Dude, no offense but that is an awfully stupid example to allude to. Today's society that I live in is built on the principles of freedom and liberty; the rights that EVERY man, woman and child should have. Mayans are an ancient civilization whom were without the widespread knowledge that we today have, and in so, are able to differentiate right and wrong from. Kill babies-- this is WRONG. Cultures only differ because their views are distorted and are based on traditionally religious indoctrinations. This is the root of it all; the persuasive power of the "leader(s)" who cannot be questioned because he is "Close To God," and God being the entity all who live under this ruler rely on. See the cyclical means of thought process?
[/QUOTE]Also, have you ever think about the posibility that theres no such think as final judgment? that theres no hell, theres no hell, just a place after death. did you ever thought of the posibility that the judgment thing was just made to help us be more kind between each other? [/QUOTE]
Okay, it's clear at this point that you have not read any of my posts. I didn't mean that in an offensive way, just that I will let you know I am an agnostic here and now. I do not believe in any pie in the sky boogie man, any heaven or hell. Surely there is no heaven as eternal peace is logically impossible, and hell certainly exists in 90% of today's world. And about the kind part-- that's exactly what religion was INTENDED for (most of them anyway). However, over time, it's the evil men who have used it's power over the masses and ruined its credibility by anyone with common sense. |
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| KaNoS |
Brownitus i read your last post and doenst make sense to me, prolly u readed my post and doesnt make sense to you.
Im not going to stop believing in god no matter what you tell through here, you are not going to start believing in god no matter what i tell you though here.
Politics and religion are endless conversations. |
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| Izzy |
| quote: | Originally posted by KaNoS
Im not going to stop believing in god no matter what you tell through here, you are not going to start believing in god no matter what i tell you though here.
Politics and religion are endless conversations. |
that is never the case with me... i always keep an open mind. on many occasions i have changed my views based on something i read or heard about. |
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| Uisgdlyast |
YOUR GOING TO HELL!!! ALL YOU NON-BELIEVERS!!!
How many times have you seen an atheist hold up a sign that says "God Hates Fags!" How many Holy Wars were caused be atheists? What religion are the KKK? Aryan Nation? all of the hate groups? When was the last time an atheist came up to you and said "Your gonna burn in hell for not believing"? when was the last time you saw an atheist hold up a sign that says "I Hate ******s/Jews/Arabs/Chinks(or some other racial slur)"? I Have never EVER seen an atheist spew as much hate as a theist person.
I fight for my rights, if i saw god doesnt exist i dont need some altar boy to tell me i'm gonna fry.. i dont persecute you so dont do the same to me.
I havnt read all 7 pages thoroughly but heres a list of fellow free-thinkers/atheists.. it goes on
Aristotle
Plato
Beethoven
Darwin, Charles
Democritus
Edison, Thomas
Einstein, Albert
Euripides
Galileo Galilei
Gates, Bill
Jefferson, Thomas
Lafayette, Gen. Marquis de
Lennon, John
Lincoln, Abraham
Paine, Thomas
Pascal, Blaise
Poe, Edgar Allan
Shakespeare, William
Twain, Mark
Washington, George
Magellan, Ferdinand
Now these are the people you read in the history books, the ones you hear about.. the ones who have changed the world for the better. I HAVE left out hundreds of people who have changed the world, actors, and singers.
If you are an atheist then bring this up, all the people who were also atheists then bring up the people who werent "Hitler, Dahmer".
www.atheism.org should be read by all, its full of knowledge and just check out and atheism site or ask most educated people about atheism.
PS. i have nothing against theist except for their ignorance and indiffernce to other religions.. i will respect you if you can give me solid reason on why you believe in what you belive and if you read your Holy Book front to back cause guess what.. i'm alsmot done with it and it is FULL of errors.
*********Plants need photosynthesis to LIVE.. dispoving Genisis, dispoving the first damn page of the Bible.. word of truth
i dont mean to offend, i dont spew hate, i'll listen just dont sound like a dumbass. |
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| KaNoS |
How about all the theist that promoted a good change?
Ghandi
Martin Luther King
Juan Pablo II
Miguel Hidalgo
and billions more, all those people that go get charity in the name of god, and give it to the poor, all the good actions that have been done.
And WHY DO YOU PEOPLE INSIST ON TAKING THE BIBLE AS A LITERARY BOOK!!
its only symbolism, figurative lenguage, written 2000 years ago!
Izzy, i meant im not going to stop believin in god, just because people are bashing religion here, i havent read any good arguemnt that i havent heard before(there are like 3 or 2 in this thread) that actually attacks the belief in god. |
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| Brownitus |
| quote: | Originally posted by KaNoS
And WHY DO YOU PEOPLE INSIST ON TAKING THE BIBLE AS A LITERARY BOOK!!
its only symbolism, figurative lenguage, written 2000 years ago!
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This comment has a few interesting points:
a) It's hilarious because Christians are 100% literalists.
b) Symbolism\figurative language are invalid excuses for the poorly written work that is the bible-- the writing is as literal as it gets, depicting everything from concrete beliefs, principles and values to events, prophecies and detailed descriptions of characters\occurances.
c) When it was written has nothing to do with any argument debating its validity.
| quote: | | Izzy, i meant im not going to stop believin in god, just because people are bashing religion here, i havent read any good arguemnt that i havent heard before(there are like 3 or 2 in this thread) that actually attacks the belief in god. |
Bashing religion? So you tag a term that gives you some leverage in the debate when you realize points are being brought up? And there is no "good" argument to someone with such a one-dimensional line of belief. Man, tell me this-- do you realize evolution? Do you believe the earth is flat? Or wait, is that some metaphor? I guess by four thousand God must have meant four billion years old too, huh. :rolleyes: |
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| Uisgdlyast |
Yes i look at the good christians, but the bad ones outweight them.. not in numbers either.
Its no use trying to open peoples eyes when they want them forced shut. You bring up errors in the Bible and they say "Ofcourse.. it was written 2,000 years ago" or "A day meant a billion years" but then Methusala, who lived to be 969 years must of been really really old when he died.. older than the earth which according to bible refrence is only a few thousand years old.
A strong believer will find a way around anyhitng you throw at them, i talk about Edison and them.. i get "They spent all their time on science and had no time for God".
Just FORGET it.. its no use, i tried.. unless the person is willing to listen they wont care. They get mad when they cant force you to believe in what they do, so dont turn out to be like them.
You have to remember not to judge a person on they're religion, skin color, or anyhting like that. You should judge them on their morals, personality, and everyhitng that cant be seen with the eye. |
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| KaNoS |
Actually here are people as closed minded into their religion, as there is closed minded into atheism that hearing the word religion or god pisses them off.
to start, i used to be catholic, but to say the truth it never convinced me,right now im following god in my own way, finding him in diferent parts.
The reason why i defend cristians, its because some people here have an idea of them that its so generalistic, some people here actually believe that all those billions of people that believe in jesus think the same way!!!
People that comes from all the nations of the world, from all the cultures, they all think the same way just because they follow the same religion. Thats idea is kinda stupid, aint it?
Also, yes, i have meet this people that claim the bible is unmistaken, i even remember this father telling me i was going straight to hell cause i wasnt going to church.
Also, i meet this people that are so open minded, fathers that even if you tell him one of those "truly bad things", he will answer something as simple as, its ok boy, we are not perfect, just keep fighting it.
Religion is made by people, people makes mistakes, some times thats the only thing we can see, and we forget about the great deeds they also have done. |
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