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A question for those who were/are anti the iraq wa (pg. 2)
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| rizen |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
what U.S. oil companies? what do you know about the oil market other than whats been fed to you? |
Subsidiaries of Halliburton. As for for the oil market, it's important to our economy and we need energy alternatives which won't happen anytime soon especially since Bush has just been cutting research on alternatives . By the way isn't it against our laws to do any business with cartels yet we do so with OPEC. I sure do love hypocrisy. |
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| NYGblue |
To answer the question I simply say. We will see, its too early to tell.
I still don't think invading was right, period. |
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| Q5echo |
backpedal much? you know nothing about the world oil market. you probably don't understand the concept of supply and demand.
find out how much oil we import from OPEC as opposed to other countries.
find out who else buys from OPEC.
figure out when OPEC will be forced to turn down volume.
then ask yourself, could the WORLD have afforded Saddam and his heirs control of the second largest proven, light sweet fields on the planet?
BTW halliburton is the largest rigging company in the world. it supports oil production infrastructure. at the outset of last years offencive, no other company in the world could have been more prepared to handle a worst case scenario with the retreat of Saddam's forces a'la 1992. yeah, halliburton was frontloaded at the outset. they were as much a part of the battle plan as any tank division. the rest is history.
you want to be schooled on anything else, holla |
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| NYGblue |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
backpedal much? you know nothing about the world oil market. you probably don't understand the concept of supply and demand.
find out how much oil we import from OPEC as opposed to other countries.
find out who else buys from OPEC.
figure out when OPEC will be forced to turn down volume.
then ask yourself, could the WORLD have afforded Saddam and his heirs control of the second largest proven, light sweet fields on the planet?
BTW halliburton is the largest rigging company in the world. it supports oil production infrastructure. at the outset of last years offencive, no other company in the world could have been more prepared to handle a worst case scenario with the retreat of Saddam's forces a'la 1992. yeah, halliburton was frontloaded at the outset. they were as much a part of the battle plan as any tank division. the rest is history.
you want to be schooled on anything else, holla |
You didn't school anyone but you are right. The U.S. imports less than half (can't remember the percentage but as low as 25%?) the oil it consumes. A large amount comes from non OPEC nations located in Latin America as well as Russia and its former satellite states.
As far as the World Oil Market is concerned, prices will continue to rise not fall in the long term. Alternative sources of energy need to be developed in the next 10 to 15 years otherwise the world could witness the worst economic crisis in modern history ca. 2030 or 2040.
Another issue is developing countries and the increase in demand for oil. As more countries grow and prosper their demand for oil will rise sharply. At the current rate output will max out in the next 10 years do deal with increasing demand. After which there will be a slow decline in the supply and output of oil.
Damn am I rambling. I love commodities talk its so interesting to me. |
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| LiquidX |
- The war in Iraq was one of the biggest mistakes that I've seen done by the US.
I still stand on the belief that, if we would have inputed all the efforts to go behind Bin Ladin and Al Quaida in a whole, we would have "probably" captured him.. seriously. All that money spent could have been split in more then half and we could have been doing hell of a job destroying the "real" enemy here.
People must admit that the evidence was not justified, and neither really "aproved".. but hey, the Neo-cons wanted the war, and they got it, and since they had an idiology, then, what could be done?!?!.. All the attention got diverted to Saddam and such.. the rest has been discussed 10000000 x times. Are the Iraquis better off?!?!?!.. Well, I think it's better to ask them personally. Many would say yes, some would say no, but one thing is for sure. Majority wants the US out. Will the system that the US is trying to implement into Iraq work?? Well, history contradicts the US vision of democracy.. the middle east is a different culture.. is not american culture. So there.. some nations need certain, different types of governemt to deal with the extremists.. and democracy, is no match to 3 different groups of extremists.
Was Saddam a bad guy?!?! .. Definetly, and I think everyone is happy that he's gone, buuuuuuuuuuut, through the way he was taken out of power, the REAL reasons, etc etc etc.. Does not gives credits to the US.. quite the contrary, it just portrays the massive interests and bully type of country that it has persuaded to demonstrated to the rest of the world.. ( for those living inside the bubble.. Explode it and go outside for a while ). ;-). Im sure this thread will burn on fire hehe... |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by NYGblue
You didn't school anyone but you are right. |
great but Rizen was my focus. you just happened to post at the same time. i apologize for confusion. i could school Rizen while hitting a crack pipe and suffering a stroke.
as of april this year we imoprt 18.7% from OPEC. that 18.7% is a signifigant comparared to the rest of the world but news flash to Rizen, we pay the same price as everyone else. we will continue to do so until the pumps run dry. |
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| NYGblue |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
great but Rizen was my focus. you just happened to post at the same time. i apologize for confusion. i could school Rizen while hitting a crack pipe and suffering a stroke.
as of april this year we imoprt 18.7% from OPEC. that 18.7% is a signifigant comparared to the rest of the world but news flash to Rizen, we pay the same price as everyone else. we will continue to do so until the pumps run dry. |
Well we the American Public certainly don't pay the same price. As other states or countries. Refining problems are probably more to blame for the hikes in gas prices than even the cost of a barrel. But that goes to before the Iraq War. Now that the price of a barrel is insanely overpriced, the cost of all oil produced goods is pretty ugly. I am really impressed the US economy hasn't taken a serious inflation hit.
Theoretically the CPI should have risen given the number of goods created with some base in oil. (Plastics, etc.) I am sure there is a good reason for that, one which I am not informed of and could easily do so with a Google search no doubt. |
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| Q5echo |
you may be confusing the dollar value on the markets and the true price of a barrel of crude.
adjusted for inflation (ours), the price of oil is almost half of what it was throughout the 80's and around in the early nineties it was around $90 a barrel. the price of gas at the pump reflected that but has continually slowed after that compared to inflation.
do i agree that the price of oil is overpriced? yes and no. given the current speculation on hedging oil funds with respect to demand, demand in general (China and the U.S.), Russian production, and the eventuall decline of OPEC, you got me? |
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| NYGblue |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
you may be confusing the dollar value on the markets and the true price of a barrel of crude.
adjusted for inflation (ours), the price of oil is almost half of what it was throughout the 80's and around in the early nineties it was around $90 a barrel. the price of gas at the pump reflected that but has continually slowed after that compared to inflation.
do i agree that the price of oil is overpriced? yes and no. given the current speculation on hedging oil funds with respect to demand, demand in general (China and the U.S.), Russian production, and the eventuall decline of OPEC, you got me? |
No I am aware of the price discrepancy between the dollar value and the price of a barrel.
However, according to the data I have received from BNP Paribas (no not the worlds expert on oil, but great market analysts). Oil prices (after refinement in todays world) are over-inflated and the price is not according to what the expected price for gasoline (different from oil) would be this year. Then again no one was expecting a war to happen. Think about it, the price of oil ca. 1998 at the pump in NJ for example was 89 cents a gallon. In 2004 its 1.93 last I checked. (I think its down to 1.87 though since the market prices on the barrel dropped gas stations are scrapping for customers.
Oil was at 90$ a barrel in the early 90's due to Desert Storm no? The Kuwaiti oil field fires caused the market to spike for awhile. I could be wrong but hell if I have seen any graphs. I don't work in commodities I just learn about it through reading and third sources.
You are absolutely right about hedging though. That is creating havoc in the markets. One thing I dont like about financial markets in general is that speculation really screws with the prices of commodities. Have you seen the range for what a barrel will cost in 6 months? Its outrageous, but hopefully given that speculation is all over the place prices can stabilize a bit.
I love going into trading rooms. They are fun to watch. Especially because you really witness how economics is being changed in todays world. Never has politics been so important to the buying and selling of stocks, bonds, commodities, and whatever else there is to buy out there on a daily basis. Most rooms have CNN on more than one TV to compliment the wide array of online market monitoring and news reports.
Anyways, you got any graphs on you? :toothless |
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| Q5echo |
i understand now. post production prices are inflated.
i can only say that as far as our prices go, when you have THE largest, most profitable companies in the world (companies as a whole not just oil)dictating the price of refinement, import, distribution, and end user costs, this is what you get.
don't forget about gas taxes either. though the fed's tax remains 18.4%, the states are not immune to the criticism IMO.
i have no graphs. still looking |
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| Q5echo |
| double post...again |
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| imokruok |
The anti-war crowd really bothers me, but what really pisses me off is the hypocrisy that I see from local protesters. Here are two of my favorites:
1) The left-wing groups so adamantly opposed to the war in Iraq are usually the ones who scream about expanding democracy. In Madison, for example, there's a group called the "Alliance for Democracy," which usually supports various left-wing causes, but also supports things like "Free Tibet" and "Free East Timor." But "Free Iraq" isn't okay? The US coalition just gave 25 million people the right to vote. But instead of saying thank you, they equate Bush to Hitler.
2) The latest thing that I've seen are grassroots protests against high gas prices. I even saw a left-wing comedian on TV saying that "Hey, we just invaded a country full of oil. Why aren't we getting any?" Of course, the protesters have completely forgotten about their "No Blood For Oil" signs. They didn't want the US to "take" any, we didn't take any, and know they're mad about it. |
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