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A question for those who were/are anti the iraq wa (pg. 3)
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| imokruok |
| quote: | Originally posted by NYGblue
I love going into trading rooms. They are fun to watch. Especially because you really witness how economics is being changed in todays world. |
You should get to Chicago some time. There are observation rooms for the Mercantile Exchange and the Board of Trade (I think). They're some of the last open outcry trading pits in the Western world, and if you talk to the traders there, they'll tell you it's the best way to get a fair price. Because you can actually see the other traders on the floor, and because trades aren't done anonymously by computer, it's possible to get a feel for the marketplace and to get a better read on volatility.
If you can't make it to Chicago, just check out Ferris Bueller's Day Off. It's got some clips of the Mercantile Exchange. It's still the same today, only I don't think the chairs are there anymore. People who weren't traders were sitting there on their cell phones and making their own trades with info from the floor.
Here's a nice pic of the Merc. :D
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| Q5echo |
| hey batta batta batta batta swwwwing batta |
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| NYGblue |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
i understand now. post production prices are inflated.
i can only say that as far as our prices go, when you have THE largest, most profitable companies in the world (companies as a whole not just oil)dictating the price of refinement, import, distribution, and end user costs, this is what you get.
don't forget about gas taxes either. though the fed's tax remains 18.4%, the states are not immune to the criticism IMO.
i have no graphs. still looking |
Yeah we are on the same page now. Gas taxes are also dictated by states mainly. Hence why I chose NJ as an example. There is no one standard price in the U.S.
I gotz to say though... 18.4%? Thats A LOT! Is that going to fund transportation projects or something? Like in Europe? |
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| NYGblue |
| quote: | Originally posted by imokruok
The anti-war crowd really bothers me, but what really pisses me off is the hypocrisy that I see from local protesters. Here are two of my favorites:
1) The left-wing groups so adamantly opposed to the war in Iraq are usually the ones who scream about expanding democracy. In Madison, for example, there's a group called the "Alliance for Democracy," which usually supports various left-wing causes, but also supports things like "Free Tibet" and "Free East Timor." But "Free Iraq" isn't okay? The US coalition just gave 25 million people the right to vote. But instead of saying thank you, they equate Bush to Hitler.
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Look man its not hypocrasy. They wouldn't adamantly ask for an invasion of those countries. Plus those issues are completely separate. While some good may come out of Iraq the intentions were obviously not to "liberate" anyone. I think thats pretty well established. What bothers you is that they don't agree with your position. There are better ways to criticize protesters view. IMO.
| quote: | Originally posted by imokruok
2) The latest thing that I've seen are grassroots protests against high gas prices. I even saw a left-wing comedian on TV saying that "Hey, we just invaded a country full of oil. Why aren't we getting any?" Of course, the protesters have completely forgotten about their "No Blood For Oil" signs. They didn't want the US to "take" any, we didn't take any, and know they're mad about it. |
They didn't forget, they are moving on. Plus I don't think its fair to make a sweeping statement on the state of the liberal movement based on a comedian. (If that is what you are doing.)
Trust me a lot of people are still really pissed about the Iraq invasion but most are over the fact that it happened and ya gotta move on. Another thing about protests are that their legitimacy is ambigious. I remember the huge protest in DC in 2003 before the war. A few hundred thousand people came down. But the organizers of that protest were mainly anarchists, communists, socialists, The Lesbian Anarchist Mother******s from New Jersey (my personal favorite), and so on. Basically fringe movements.
While I was against the invasion I really cringed watching the protests and the speakers. A lot of misinformation was being thrown around that I found rather unneccesary and downright stupid.
I think one can conclude that on both sides of the coin there are a lot of stupid people and extremists in general are not very realistic people Conservative or Liberal. :D |
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| imokruok |
| quote: | Originally posted by NYGblue
Yeah we are on the same page now. Gas taxes are also dictated by states mainly. Hence why I chose NJ as an example. There is no one standard price in the U.S.
I gotz to say though... 18.4%? Thats A LOT! Is that going to fund transportation projects or something? Like in Europe? |
Keep in mind that various states also have different sources for gasoline and there are tens of different blends that are used across the country. In Wisconsin, we had one summer of insanely high gas prices a few years ago when the rest of the country was at a normal level. One of the pipelines that brings gas up from Texas was under maintenance, and one of the refineries that produced our blend of gas was also down for repairs.
Re: the 18.4%, it's comparatively pretty low to the rest of the world. I think we all know what Europeans pay per liter, and it's not pretty. Unfortunately, it's a hidden tax - no gas pump in the country will tell you how much you're paying in tax on a gallon.
The federal gas tax is used for two main things: to maintain the Interstate highway system, and to provide funding for mass transit systems around the country. The state gas tax does basically the same thing for state highways and roads, although some states will put the money into general revenue accounts instead of putting it into highway trust accounts. |
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| NYGblue |
| quote: | Originally posted by imokruok
I think we all know what Europeans pay per liter, and it's not pretty.
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Yeah but they can get away with it. 1. Because driving isn't as important there as it is here. 2. Many of those countries have AWESOME transportation systems. Spains really blew me away.
Since they don't have suburbia, everyone is pretty centrally located with easy public trans. access to anywhere else. A lot of people live very happily without cars.
Just a different mentality. |
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| rizen |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
backpedal much? you know nothing about the world oil market. you probably don't understand the concept of supply and demand.
find out how much oil we import from OPEC as opposed to other countries. |
We get it mostly from Canada IIRC.
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
find out who else buys from OPEC. |
I bet alot.
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
figure out when OPEC will be forced to turn down volume. |
Soon I bet.
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
then ask yourself, could the WORLD have afforded Saddam and his heirs control of the second largest proven, light sweet fields on the planet? |
If we lifted sanctions, probably.
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
BTW halliburton is the largest rigging company in the world. it supports oil production infrastructure. at the outset of last years offencive, no other company in the world could have been more prepared to handle a worst case scenario with the retreat of Saddam's forces a'la 1992. yeah, halliburton was frontloaded at the outset. they were as much a part of the battle plan as any tank division. the rest is history. |
If Holyburton was the only who can do it, then why were other companies be it US or foreign not pleased that there were no contract bids. Still no excuse for Holyburton to rip us off.
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
you want to be schooled on anything else, holla |
Holla?  |
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| rizen |
| quote: | Originally posted by imokruok
The anti-war crowd really bothers me, but what really pisses me off is the hypocrisy that I see from local protesters. Here are two of my favorites:
1) The left-wing groups so adamantly opposed to the war in Iraq are usually the ones who scream about expanding democracy. In Madison, for example, there's a group called the "Alliance for Democracy," which usually supports various left-wing causes, but also supports things like "Free Tibet" and "Free East Timor." But "Free Iraq" isn't okay? The US coalition just gave 25 million people the right to vote. But instead of saying thank you, they equate Bush to Hitler. |
I'm glad for they're so called freedom, guess time will tell. But looking at Afghanistan at don't have much hope especially with the current administration. Also they have the right to vote as long it's not an Islamic government.
| quote: | | Originally posted by imokruok 2) The latest thing that I've seen are grassroots protests against high gas prices. I even saw a left-wing comedian on TV saying that "Hey, we just invaded a country full of oil. Why aren't we getting any?" Of course, the protesters have completely forgotten about their "No Blood For Oil" signs. They didn't want the US to "take" any, we didn't take any, and know they're mad about it. |
was it Bill Maher? |
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| rizen |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
great but Rizen was my focus. you just happened to post at the same time. i apologize for confusion. i could school Rizen while hitting a crack pipe and suffering a stroke. |
I doubt that, you can't even spell my name right. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by rizen
We get it mostly from Canada IIRC. |
wrong. and WTF is the IIRC? nevermind i'm sure its not important
try, everyone that matters
so how do you think that impacts the world
| quote: | | If we lifted sanctions, probably. |
he made $10 billion siphoning off his own country, letting his countrymen rot and supporting jihad and you wanted to lift sanctions?
your a box of rocks dude.
| quote: | | ]If Holyburton was the only who can do it, then why were other companies be it US or foreign not pleased that there were no contract bids. Still no excuse for Holyburton to rip us off. |
welcome to the real world. i told you they were frontloaded. at least now you know they are not an oil company. |
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| NYGblue |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
he made $10 billion siphoning off his own country, letting his countrymen rot and supporting jihad and you wanted to lift sanctions?
your a box of rocks dude.
welcome to the real world. i told you they were frontloaded. at least now you know they are not an oil company. |
Halliburton could probably charge a premium because 1) they were the only ones available for the task quickly. 2) Most major corporations charge premiums to the US govt. see US Defense Contractors. 3) Doesn't hurt to have your former CEO tapping into the decision making process.
Was it WRONG? Meh... maybe, but that depends on your perspective. Its more realistic than anything. |
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| imokruok |
Where the US gets its oil:
Oil production from within the US accounts for roughly 45% of what we use everyday. The main sources are Alaska, Texas, and the Gulf of Mexico. The remainder of what we use (roughly 55%) comes from the following places:
Canada, Venezuela, Mexico, and Saudi Arabia provide about 15% each of the USA's foreign consumption. Sometimes Canada is #1, but sometimes it's one of the other three. Nigeria, Iraq and Kuwait make up another 15% combined. The remaining 25% comes from Russia, Latin America, and the UK/Norway.
These numbers only hold true when we're talking about the continental US, by the way. Hawaii gets 1/2 of its oil from Alaska and 1/2 from Indonesia and other south-east Asian nations. And Alaska, naturally, consumes pretty much 100% Alaskan oil. |
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