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What happened to The Guvernment (pg. 5)
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kytracid
I agree as well that people like Zabiela deserve their paycheck more then fat cat rock star DJ's like Oakenfold, but lets not forget that the man is more then just a DJ. Now, that's not an excuse for his less then inspirational performances in the last few years, but when you consider the impact he has had on the EDM scene, it's not hard to figure out why people still love him so much. The mans done a lot to open up doors for younger DJ's like Zabiela to step in, which is why even though i don't rate him hihgly as a DJ, i still respect him as a electronic music pioneer.
Truth is, Oakie's never been brilliant on the decks, he's no Sasha, or Zabiela, everyone who's heard his live mixes knows his skills at mixing are average at best -- what Oakie's always been decent at is giving the crowd a spectacle, and that's why they go to his show. It's his track selection which a lot of other DJ's have copied over the years. It's sad then that with the unfettered access he has to new material he opts for the lazy way out and doesn't bother to go and use his talent in finding that next club gem instead of just looking back in the perfecto cupboard for a record he's been whoring.
So, while i personally wouldn't pay to go see Oakie spin a rehashed set, i can see why people who have heard his Essential Mixes for the late 1990's and his GU & Trancepot CD's still believe that on his day, Paul Oakenfold is truly deserving of the title of a superstar DJ.
With success however, comes the curse of losing the hunger which propels DJ's into the higher echelons. Oakie's clearly lost that drive which made him such an icon back in the days...but that only means the door is left open for new pretenders to step up and show the world that they deserve to be on that stage, behind the decks...and that kind of competition is good for clubbers and fans alike. |
Yikes, those are some harsh words about Oakey, totally uncalled for, untrue ... How long has Zabiella been spinning? Not too long ... how long has Oakenfold been a DJ? For about 20 YEARS! Its like comparing AN OLD MAN to a man in his 20s - DUH, older people are not as creative as younger. Oakenfold is NOT a "FAT CAT ROCKSTAR", or whatever you apply him as, thats very offensive, just like Eminem's saying about MOBY: "Nobody listens to techno". Dont even bother saying its not true. Paul may have lost his intensity for the music, but he is still a great DJ. He didnt "ALWAYS" used to have "AVERGAE AT BEST" livesets - many of his 1992-1999 LIVESETS, like GOA MIX GOLD / GOA MIX SILVER, Live in Miami, Austin Texas, Kremlin, 1999 Essential Mixes, etc ARE UNIQUE, VERY WELL MIXED, AMAZING! sets that I NEVER EVEN BOTHERED SPLITTING INTO SEPARATE TRACKS because the whole freaking set is that good! Even his CDs are unique: like Fluoro, Another World, Travelling, Global Underground!, etc. - very good CDs, great tracks, great mixing.
I cant believe you said all that junk about legendary HOLY Paul Oakenfold. Shame on you .... Zabiella is fine, but Oakenfold still deserves a hat-off standing ovation, and respect. You havent showed him the respect he deserves.
EDIT: Here's quotation I am typing up from Oakenfold's GLOBAL UNDERGROUND: Live in Oslo leaflet insert:
"When I started DJing, it was no big thing. There was no money in DJ'ing, and you did it purely for the love of playing music and being able to express yourself because all you really are is an extension of the crowd, working the crowd and getting involved with what is going on. I've always DJ'ed for the love of it and still do, and I don't know if I will ever lose that love ... I doubt it."
PAUL OAKENFOLD |
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| Kytracid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Yikes, those are some harsh words about Oakey, totally uncalled for, untrue ... How long has Zabiella been spinning? Not too long ... how long has Oakenfold been a DJ? For about 20 YEARS! Its like comparing AN OLD MAN to a man in his 20s - DUH, older people are not as creative as younger. Oakenfold is NOT a "FAT CAT ROCKSTAR", or whatever you apply him as, thats very offensive,
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Age has nothing to do with creativity, are you actually suggesting that because Paul is in his late 40's that somehow he is less creative then a 20 something year old Zebeila ? That's not only total rubbish, but also a lame excuse to offer for Paul's lazy efforts in the last few years. There was a time when Paul Oakenfold was leading the EDM movement from the front (this is just a few years before the global explosion in what is now known as epic melodic trance), now he basically operates like a broken record, playing the same type of 'safe' sounds that everyone has come to expect from him. No effort at improving his technical skills, no creativity shown in his mixes, basically no hint of the pioneer who aspiring DJ's once would model themselves after.
No one is denying he is capable of throwing down an exceptional set, but has he shown us any glimpses of that genious in the recent past ? Not really, and that's why i refered to him as a a fat cat rockstar DJ. Over the last two-three years, he only does 2-3 hour sets, usually rehashed, and most of them involving tracks played in a similar order (does that tell you something about how much effort he is dedicating to what should be his number one priority -- performing ?)
You go on to ramble that i haven't shown Oakie any respect, but if you took the time to get off Pauls dick, you'd realize that i've already stated that on his day, Oakie is capable of stunning any crowd with his performance. I also stated that Goa Silver mix is one of his finest efforts, and probably on the best EM's of all time...but that was in mid 90's...lets move on shall we. If anything, people who have followed Oakenfold, expect him to get better after Goa Silver and Tranceport not slip away into mediocrity (as far as live performance goes anyway)
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
[COLOR=Lime]
just like Eminem's saying about MOBY: "Nobody listens to techno". Dont even bother saying its not true. Paul may have lost his intensity for the music, but he is still a great DJ. He didnt "ALWAYS" used to have "AVERGAE AT BEST" livesets - many of his 1992-1999 LIVESETS, like GOA MIX GOLD / GOA MIX SILVER, Live in Miami, Austin Texas, Kremlin, 1999 Essential Mixes, etc ARE UNIQUE, VERY WELL MIXED, AMAZING! sets that I NEVER EVEN BOTHERED SPLITTING INTO SEPARATE TRACKS because the whole freaking set is that good! Even his CDs are unique: like Fluoro, Another World, Travelling, Global Underground!, etc. - very good CDs, great tracks, great mixing.
I cant believe you said all that junk about legendary HOLY Paul Oakenfold. Shame on you .... Zabiella is fine, but Oakenfold still deserves a hat-off standing ovation, and respect. You havent showed him the respect he deserves.
PAUL OAKENFOLD |
Zabiela was used as a comparison, because here you have a young DJ with a firey passion for his craft. Not only is he immensely talented, but he works hard at maintaining his prodigious talents behind the steel wheels. I'm not comparing Oakie and Zeb, just pointing out what happens to aging veterns in the game, when they feel rep is enough to survive in an ultra competitive environment. Someone younger, more talented steps up and shows the world what they're all about.
I feel no shame that Oakie isn't the DJ he once was...or could have been. That's for him to feel. (Not that i think for a minute that he does...he's a millionare - and i'm just a SOB writting a post about him on a message board forum ;)
Like Tiesto today, Oakenfold bought into the title magazines bestowed upon him of being the worlds number 1 DJ, and being a superstar among his fellow peers. As a result he got sloppy, concentrated his efforts into other aspects of showbiz and ultimately became complacent about the one area that he should have continued to improve upon -- his DJ'ing ! The result, is the steady decline from the higher strata that he once ruled -- a fate not dissimilar to the one i predict will befall the worlds current #1 DJ in the world ;) |
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| Magnetonium |
... I agree that couple of Oakey's latest CDs have been boring, and his livesets since 2001 have not been so good. However, my point is that the reason Oakenfold is degrading is not because he not innovative or creative, as you said, but because he is done it for such a long period of time, he is simply getting "too old" for DJ'ing. He doesn't have the passion or the energy for it anymore. Of course, he wants to stay in the business and get paid big bucks - who wouldn't - but that doesn't mean someone should lash out at him. It will be better just to say "I am disappointed" and move on to other artists. Respect should still be there for him. Moby is an excellent example in this case. I was "disappointed" with his 18 album, as to compared to older Moby music, which was waaaay better, but I wouldn't go around saying silly things about him - I dont have the talent to even produce something as good as that mediocre 18 album, anyhow. I am just hoping for the better ... in fact, Moby has a new CD out, I am excited as a possibillty that it might be a better direction.
Makes more sense? |
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| Kytracid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
... I agree that couple of Oakey's latest CDs have been boring, and his livesets since 2001 have not been so good. However, my point is that the reason Oakenfold is degrading is not because he not innovative or creative, as you said, but because he is done it for such a long period of time, he is simply getting "too old" for DJ'ing. He doesn't have the passion or the energy for it anymore. Of course, he wants to stay in the business and get paid big bucks - who wouldn't - but that doesn't mean someone should lash out at him. It will be better just to say "I am disappointed" and move on to other artists. Respect should still be there for him. Moby is an excellent example in this case. I was "disappointed" with his 18 album, as to compared to older Moby music, which was waaaay better, but I wouldn't go around saying silly things about him - I dont have the talent to even produce something as good as that mediocre 18 album, anyhow. I am just hoping for the better ... in fact, Moby has a new CD out, I am excited as a possibillty that it might be a better direction.
Makes more sense? |
LOL, so you're saying that if someone pays $50 to go see him spin a 2 hour set of rehashed songs shouldn't complain because he was once a great DJ ? That's outrageous ! Paul Oakenfold is accountable for his performance because he demands such a high fee. If Oakie was spinning for free, i wouldn't bitch about it. But he doesn't, does he ? In fact, he's actually charging more then some DJ's who are ten times more talented and hardworking then him. That's why there is such a backlash against Oakie...he is growing into that tired old rock star who just refuses to admit that his time is up.
I respect the man's efforts and achievements, but there is no way you can spare him some of the critisim that he deserves based on what he did 10 years ago. Oakie of course has the ability to prove all his doubters wrong as well...it's just a question of rededicating himself to the music. Hope among Oakie fans springs eternal that he will...
I remain skeptical. |
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| Magnetonium |
No, I am saying they shouldn't go any pay 50 bucks in the first place. I wouldn't go to his gig for such a high price. If it was Oakenfold 4 years ago, I will go without hesitation. Today I'll have to think about spending 30 bucks on him ...
Obviously, A LOT OF PEOPLE still like him and would pay 50 bucks to check him out, and would say they had a lot of fun. So you be the judge. |
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| Kytracid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
No, I am saying they shouldn't go any pay 50 bucks in the first place. I wouldn't go to his gig for such a high price. If it was Oakenfold 4 years ago, I will go without hesitation. Today I'll have to think about spending 30 bucks on him ...
Obviously, A LOT OF PEOPLE still like him and would pay 50 bucks to check him out, and would say they had a lot of fun. So you be the judge. |
Sure - no one is denying he has a following. Oakie's PR team definately deserves credit for that though because his performances have taken a backseat to all his other projects and yet he's still talked about like he's leading the race as one of the top DJ's in the world.
Funny thing is, in a peverse way, that's probably contributed to his decline in a DJ as well. If people didn't throng to an Oakenfold event, maybe he wouldn't have this notion, that it's ok for him to just show up, throw on a couple of records and mix in the last minute of the tracks...
It's a shame really that global popularity from newbie clubbers, and his own massive ego have resulted in the downfall of this once taleted artist. |
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| Your Mother |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
No, I am saying they shouldn't go any pay 50 bucks in the first place. I wouldn't go to his gig for such a high price. If it was Oakenfold 4 years ago, I will go without hesitation. Today I'll have to think about spending 30 bucks on him ...
Obviously, A LOT OF PEOPLE still like him and would pay 50 bucks to check him out, and would say they had a lot of fun. So you be the judge. |
Dude, Oakie 4 years ago live is just as bad as he is today. Even Oakie 8 years ago live is still as bad. The guy has never been able to spin well live. The only reason he has such a following is because he took advantage of the explosion of melodic trance from 97 and spearheaded the movement. People who started to get into the scene when it exploded in 99 could identify with Oakie's sets more than any other dj.
I wouldn't pay $10 to see his set live anymore because the mixing, and track selection leave something to be desired.
-Your Mother |
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| Orko |
^^^^ were any of you actually there on saturday night? he threw down a great set!!!
and comparing him to zabiela, is fair, and its not. using it to compare an up and commer, and a veteran is fair, but try and and compare their mixing...not fair. They are two totally different styls, and each good for their own reasons.
And his mixing on sat night, may have been quick, but no trainwreks, thats for damn sure. the quick mixing is nothing new from him, and its pretty much his trade mark, get from one track to the next quickly.
as for his price...well i think he has been reasonable each time ive seen him. its never been outragous. the most ive paid was $55, and that was WITH the Chemical Brothers, more than worth it in my opinion.
about him sping the same rehashed sets...take a look at Sasha, the man people have called very versitile this year...this tracklistings are the same! but why do people look the other way with him? Every dj has the same sets, the same record box over a period of time, thats their sound, and they pump it, and tour with it. |
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| Orko |
As for the guv(what this thread was originally about, before it got highjacked)
The last 5 years, have been this place's time to shine. And like all good things, it will 'overheat' and fade away. or just go to hell. i wish they would raise prices, in order to drive away some customers. but with this type of business, what ever money they lose on the "cover" they will gain in booze sales.
i personally think thats what they have been doing. Cause if oakey does charge so much, they prices should be sky high, but $15 was extremply reasonable. I think they are taking a loss on the cover, and thinking they will make it up on liquior sales. |
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| Magnetonium |
True ... yeah, this thread got "hijacked", lol, alright ... I just caught on a change in topic, introduced by someone else ...
but YES,, Oakenfold is a great DJ, his mixing skills are fine (why is it everything BASED ON SKILLS?) - I primarily like him because of the music selection in his sets / CDs. As long as he doesnt "kill" a record while mixing, I'd rather hearing better tracks than superb mixing and crappy tracklisting.
For example, in the Goa Mixes Oakenfold wasnt great in mixing - in fact he only mixed about half the tracks - but those are some really AMAZING livesets by themselves ... screw the mixing!
As for the Guv, yes, I am happy many people are noticing the bad change, and hopefully it will go on for the better ... |
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| Poke |
| quote: | Originally posted by nycionx
ya man. im afraid wuts gonna happen to trance here is it will get so mainstream that it wont be such a cool thing anymore. its alot better the way it even still is now, where like the majority of people havent got a clue wut trance is. if more and more start listening to it...then i dont think thats good for trance and us addicts
just look at all the other types of (wut people term as) "music". its all garbage. i spit on it how bad it is. so ill be happier if people that listen to that garbage STICK with it. cuz if u start seeing a crowd of thugs, ginos, goths,etc (who likely arent even going to the club for trance but to do some stupid ,etc), believe me, ur not gonna like it... i wont i kno that |
Would you not like to hear MORE trance? Isn't more (good) trance a great thing for addicts?
Secondly, what is everyone's fascination with the word mainstream? Who cares if something is mainstream or not. The only thing that should matter is that it sounds good. If more people are hearing it, more people are going to produce it. This might bring out some REALLY bad music, but on the other hand it might actually create some legandary tracks. Think about it.
Lastly who cares if someone is a gino, or a goth, etc. All that matter is that the person is dancing and not pissing anyone off... or sitting on the floor. Dino Panino can come to the club as long as he's doing the tarantella (italian dance). |
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| Poke |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kytracid
Of course it's not. But was that ever in question when you consider Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake have has sold millions of albums in the last few years. Talent and popularity are two completely different things. One look at the winner of DJ Mags 2004 DJ poll will tell you that.
I agree as well that people like Zabiela deserve their paycheck more then fat cat rock star DJ's like Oakenfold, but lets not forget that the man is more then just a DJ. Now, that's not an excuse for his less then inspirational performances in the last few years, but when you consider the impact he has had on the EDM scene, it's not hard to figure out why people still love him so much. The mans done a lot to open up doors for younger DJ's like Zabiela to step in, which is why even though i don't rate him hihgly as a DJ, i still respect him as a electronic music pioneer.
Truth is, Oakie's never been brilliant on the decks, he's no Sasha, or Zabiela, everyone who's heard his live mixes knows his skills at mixing are average at best -- what Oakie's always been decent at is giving the crowd a spectacle, and that's why they go to his show. It's his track selection which a lot of other DJ's have copied over the years. It's sad then that with the unfettered access he has to new material he opts for the lazy way out and doesn't bother to go and use his talent in finding that next club gem instead of just looking back in the perfecto cupboard for a record he's been whoring.
So, while i personally wouldn't pay to go see Oakie spin a rehashed set, i can see why people who have heard his Essential Mixes for the late 1990's and his GU & Trancepot CD's still believe that on his day, Paul Oakenfold is truly deserving of the title of a superstar DJ.
With success however, comes the curse of losing the hunger which propels DJ's into the higher echelons. Oakie's clearly lost that drive which made him such an icon back in the days...but that only means the door is left open for new pretenders to step up and show the world that they deserve to be on that stage, behind the decks...and that kind of competition is good for clubbers and fans alike. |
I couldn't have said it better myself |
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