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What makes a good DJ ?? (pg. 7)
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| DigiNut |
It's got absolutely nothing to do with the "high end". You're right about congested synths, but it's laughable that you'd blame the distortion on the sound system, because EVERY system/mixer/amp is prone to the same issues.
There are 3 kinds of distortion:
1. Clipping. Clipping occurs when the (total input power) * (amplification) > (max rated output power). This happens most often on ty sound systems at small clubs, but I've also heard it at the Guvernment main room (not the other rooms).
2. Intermodulation. When three or more frequencies are mixed, you get intermodulation (3rd-order) products. If the frequencies are particularly dissonant, the intermodulation products will sound really really awful and most people will hear it as "distortion". Most producers will take care to avoid that kind of discord in their productions, but if a DJ, usually a trance DJ, tries for example to mix two tracks together that are in a different key, it can sound horrible even if the beat matching and eq'ing is perfect. Even if the mix isn't dissonant, you can still get this if (for example) you make a consonant chord out of very heavily distorted synths. Try it in fruityloops if you don't believe me - toss in a guitar synth, apply a distortion filter and crank it up really high, and try to form some chords with it - it'll sound like .
3. Feedback. Solid state amps operate on a negative feedback model and incorporate multiple stages. Problem is, each stage introduces a declining gain curve and phase shift. Unless the amp is completely stable (which is rarely the case for high power amps), there will often be a point at some frequency/amplitude combination where the phase shift is > 180° and the gain is still higher than 1. If this happens, the negative feedback turns into positive feedback, and we all know what positive feedback sounds like (try putting a microphone right in front of the speaker and talking into it if you don't know). Technically, the actual distortion resulting from feedback is a kind of clipping, but a very different kind.
What you're probably thinking of is #3, but that is by no means limited to high frequencies, and in a trance set it tends to happen a lot more often in the midrange and bass if it happens at all.
Anything that happens on the high end is likely to actually fall into the #2 category. If several high frequencies are mixed, they'll produce an even higher frequency - and if the product is then fed into a sampler or DSP without being properly filtered, that super-high frequency will get sampled incorrectly and played as other unexpected tones. But it's VERY VERY RARE to find such a piss-poor setup. You'll almost NEVER hear this kind of problem.
You can't blame the equipment - ALL equipment has these properties, no matter how high-end it is. A DJ has to know and understand his equipment and not crank it too loud or go overboard with the eq'ing. A lot of DJs crank the bass up all the way on the EQ and that almost always distorts because it screws up the frequency response of the amp. It's rare that a DJ will try to amplify the high end and start creating distortion there; and to pose another example, you'll often hear DJs playing with lowpass filters but almost never highpass filters. It's the LOW END where all the distortion comes from.
And this here goes to show how a lot of DJs just don't get it. They assume they know all about sound dynamics because they've tossed a few records on a turntable - well all you bedroom DJs need to get over yourselves because that doesn't mean anything. It takes knowledge of and experience with sound and acoustics to really get it right, and that's part of what I call a DJ's technical skill. And no, I'm not claiming to be skilled in this area, but I certainly know skill (or lack thereof) when I hear it. |
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| {b.s.e.} |
| two turn tables and a microphone. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
It's got absolutely nothing to do with
And this here goes to show how a lot of DJs just don't get it. They assume they know all about sound dynamics because they've tossed a few records on a turntable - well all you bedroom DJs need to get over yourselves because that doesn't mean anything. It takes knowledge of and experience with sound and acoustics to really get it right, and that's part of what I call a DJ's technical skill. And no, I'm not claiming to be skilled in this area, but I certainly know skill (or lack thereof) when I hear it. |
well it seems that you know very much the technical aspect and explanations on to how distortion occurs and how djs should avoid it.. but you have to realise as well that djs dont really hear whats going on on the dancefloor they are mainly in tune with their monitor speakers and headphones. which are controlled seperatley from the speakers on the dancefloor. Also alot of soundsystems are different with their limits and capabilities. Sometimes it would sound fine in your monitor speakers but sound completely distorted on the dance floor.. that would be due to a poor soundsystem design, i guess you cant really blame the dj for that.
I would assume that most djs dont understand the exact science behind sound dynamics.. they basically go with how it sounds on their monitors and just that.
clipping is usually resolved when a track is produced and mastered. If its not clipping to a dj on his main mixer and monitor its basically not clipping to them. Its not too difficult to notice when your readlining your mixer hehe but im sure alot of djs do do that once in a while. understanding clipping will also come from producing experience.
You can partially blame equipment if its not setup properly.. its not the djs job to set it up.. compare the quality of sound of kool haus to that of lets say boa or Stereo in montreal (probably the best sound system ive ever heard)
I personally wont go to kool haus to see a trance event after a bad experience of sound quality during a ferry corsten show.. I blame the sound system setup since ive heard ferry play clearly at many other clubs.
ALot of djs do tweak with the high end especially in trance since most build ups are only comprised with higher end frequencies.
intermodulation is hardly a problem, that would only occur if a dj were to be megamixing..(or mixing techno) and simply put .. if it sounds good in their monitor speakers they are expecting it to sound the same on the dancefloor.. (i would assume) |
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| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Distortion in the headphones means distortion in the speakers, and DJs would know when they're going overboard.
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Which is why good headphones are so important.
If you have ty ones, they're going to be distorted no matter what it sounds like on the dancefloor. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
well it seems that you know very much the technical aspect and explanations on to how distortion occurs and how djs should avoid it.. but you have to realise as well that djs dont really hear whats going on on the dancefloor they are mainly in tune with their monitor speakers and headphones. which are controlled seperatley from the speakers on the dancefloor. Also alot of soundsystems are different with their limits and capabilities. Sometimes it would sound fine in your monitor speakers but sound completely distorted on the dance floor.. that would be due to a poor soundsystem design, i guess you cant really blame the dj for that.
I would assume that most djs dont understand the exact science behind sound dynamics.. they basically go with how it sounds on their monitors and just that.
clipping is usually resolved when a track is produced and mastered. If its not clipping to a dj on his main mixer and monitor its basically not clipping to them. Its not too difficult to notice when your readlining your mixer hehe but im sure alot of djs do do that once in a while. understanding clipping will also come from producing experience.
You can partially blame equipment if its not setup properly.. its not the djs job to set it up.. compare the quality of sound of kool haus to that of lets say boa or Stereo in montreal (probably the best sound system ive ever heard)
I personally wont go to kool haus to see a trance event after a bad experience of sound quality during a ferry corsten show.. I blame the sound system setup since ive heard ferry play clearly at many other clubs.
ALot of djs do tweak with the high end especially in trance since most build ups are only comprised with higher end frequencies.
intermodulation is hardly a problem, that would only occur if a dj were to be megamixing..(or mixing techno) and simply put .. if it sounds good in their monitor speakers they are expecting it to sound the same on the dancefloor.. (i would assume) |
A good DJ can shut off the monitor and judge the sound on the dancefloor and adjust accordingly. Not to mention that there are various visual monitors in the booth that also give you an idea as to how loud things really are. |
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| arek |
it helps if you are powerful dictator and leader of your country. |
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| starsearcher |
| quote: | Originally posted by arek
it helps if you are powerful dictator and leader of your country. |
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
:haha: :haha: :haha: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue:
He's my new hero :crazy: :haha: :stongue:
That's ed |
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| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
A good DJ can shut off the monitor and judge the sound on the dancefloor and adjust accordingly. Not to mention that there are various visual monitors in the booth that also give you an idea as to how loud things really are. |
but to truly judge the sound, you need to go out on the dancefloor.
but you shouldn't do that, because you should spend every second mixing, tweaking, or just touching the mixer in general without looking up. |
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| starsearcher |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
but to truly judge the sound, you need to go out on the dancefloor.
but you shouldn't do that, because you should spend every second mixing, tweaking, or just touching the mixer in general without looking up. |
NEVER look up!!! |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
but to truly judge the sound, you need to go out on the dancefloor.
but you shouldn't do that, because you should spend every second mixing, tweaking, or just touching the mixer in general without looking up. |
Interesting. You see the best technical DJs ive worked with have always been able to judge from the booth. Of course being right in the centre of the room is the best way to judge but if you have experience and know what you are doing you are able to general tell when it's distorted or not and even WHERE the distortion is coming from when in the booth. |
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| Skipper |
I'm being sarcastic Jay...
Don't take everything I say seriously, I certainly don't take everything you say seriously. :p |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
I'm being sarcastic Jay...
Don't take everything I say seriously, I certainly don't take everything you say seriously. :p |
:tongue2 :tongue2 :tongue2 |
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