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TOTA Election (pg. 11)
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| crazedcanuck |
| quote: | Originally posted by djeso
Political views are quite personal atleast for me, all I see is that no one here on either side respects anyone else's opinions, instead creating feeding anger and hate ..... just great |
Rather than have pointed debate, with articles or statistics to back it up, TA likes to spout off rather than point-counter-point
Rather than discuss anything positive in regards to the Liberals, the pro-Liberal camp, much like those they are defending, sidetrack with another issue rather than focus on their own track-record.
And on the other side of the debate, childish levels of preaching/name calling (Lieberals :rolleyes: ) completely detract from any validity their points have.
Gotta love it.
(and btw, don't for a second assume I'm voting conservative/or liberal for that matter. I've voted Reform Green, and NDP in the past, so watch the paintbrush) |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by amb_
Kept Canada together. |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
-the Quiet Revolution happened under the Lieberals
-Rene Leveque came out of the Lieberal Party
-the Flag Flap and de-Britishization of Canada happened under the Lieberals
-the FLQ / October Crisis (with the UNPRECEDENTED calling of martial law) happened under the Trudeau Lieberals
-the Lieberals forced bilingualism on English-speaking provinces
-the PQ separatist government came to power in 1976 with the Trudeau Lieberals in Ottawa
-the anglophone diaspora happened with the Lieberals in power
-the 1980 Quebec referendum happened with the Trudeau Lieberals in Ottawa
-the divisive 1982 "constitution" was put into place with the Trudeau Lieberals in Ottawa (which Quebec HAS STILL NOT SIGNED)
-the Western Canada Concept and other western separatists came to prominance with the Trudeau Lieberals in Ottawa
-the 1995 Quebec referendum happened with the Chretien Lieberals in Ottawa
-AdScam, which is currently fueling anger in Quebec, happened under the Lieberals
The Lieberals are tearing this country apart! |
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...ol=968350116795
Liberals give separatists kiss of life again
CHANTAL H?0‡7BERT
Apr. 15, 2005. 01:00 AM
If the Liberal Party of Canada did not exist, the Quebec sovereignty movement might have to invent it.
With the sponsorship scandal, the federal Liberals have given the cause of Quebec sovereignty the breath of life for the third time in little more than two decades.
It first happened under Pierre Trudeau, when the Constitution was patriated against the will of the Quebec National Assembly.
Then Trudeau and Jean Chr¨¦tien led the fight against the Meech Lake Accord.
Before the accord foundered, support for sovereignty sat at its lowest level in years. If Meech had passed, few sovereignists could imagine a scenario that would allow for a referendum rematch.
The failure of the accord also gave birth to the Bloc Qu¨¦b¨¦cois. For the federal Liberals who had lost francophone Quebec decisively after patriation, that actually came with a silver lining.
The advent of the Bloc made it next to impossible for a national alternative to the Liberals to grow strong roots in Quebec. That, in turn, makes it difficult for a party other than the Liberals to secure a majority government nationally.
But at least the patriation and the Meech battles were fought on the field of ideas. By allowing the sponsorship scandal to unfold on its watch, the Liberal party has outdone itself for no greater cause, it appears, than its own interest or that of some of its associates.
In the days before the scandal broke, sovereignty had many of the features of a spent force.
The Parti Qu¨¦b¨¦cois had just registered its lowest score in decades in a provincial election and the Bloc feared its turn was soon to come in the upcoming federal campaign.
Instead, it rode the scandal backlash to its best showing since the pre-referendum era.
The revelations that have since come to light at the Gomery commission ensure that whenever the next election takes place, the Bloc will improve on that high score.
The Liberals have joined the Conservatives and the NDP as non-contenders in francophone Quebec. Such is their predicament that they have fallen to third place, far behind the BQ.
In the next campaign, Stephen Harper and Jack Layton will actually find it easier to draft candidates in Quebec than Martin.
Very few people want to run for a party that is routinely equated with corruption around the water coolers.
Against this backdrop, the Prime Minister is arguing that Harper will be gambling with national unity for his own partisan interest if he defeats Martin's minority government over the sponsorship scandal.
But the Bloc is set to dominate Quebec for at least one and maybe two more election cycles.
Martin's core argument really is that if voters outside Quebec ever chose to replace the Liberals with the Conservatives, that party's agenda would push Quebecers to bolt from the federation.
But if Quebecers' attachment to Canada was so fragile, they would surely have left in the face of the Liberal constitutional moves of the past decades.
Indeed, compared to Meech or patriation, the sponsorship scandal does not seriously register on the Richter scale of unity earthquakes.
In 1990, Quebecers were so angry over the demise of Meech that they massively wanted to turn their backs on Canada. They clamoured for a referendum.
In the case of the sponsorship scandal, it is the Liberal party that they are turning their backs on in disgust. But that feeling has, so far, not translated into an outburst of referendum fever.
From Quebec's perspective, if the next federal election is to be a litmus test of anything Canadian, it may be of the capacity of the rest of the country to hold its nose and reward Liberal efforts to smother the political stench of the sponsorship affair with the flag. |
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| ShadoWolf |
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...Story/National/
CIBC: Lieberals "Killing" Ontario
By TERRY WEBER
Friday, April 15, 2005 Updated at 3:17 PM EST
Globe and Mail Update
Ottawa is in danger of ¡°killing the golden goose¡± by running a huge operating surplus while leaving Ontario to carry an increasingly heavy fiscal burden, a new report said Friday.
According to CIBC World Markets, the $23-billion federal operating surplus ¨C the difference between what Ottawa collects in the province and what it gives back ¨C is 10 times what it was a decade ago.
¡°With Ontario stretched to its financial limits, and the federal government still comfortably in the black, some are asking whether Ottawa is killing its golden goose,¡± the report said.
The report comes as Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty battles with Ottawa for an additional $5-billion in federal funding.
Mr. McGuinty argues that the $23-billion funding gap ¨C based on the amounts Ottawa collects through things like income taxes, GST and employment insurance premiums and what it gives back in areas such as transfers and direct spending ¨C has left Ontario struggling in terms of education and health-care funding.
Ontario, Mr. McGuinty says, now ranks 10th out of 10 provinces when it comes to per capita government investment in colleges and universities. Similarly, he says, Ontario ranks second last per capita when it comes to how much the provinces receive for health care.
The debate spilled over to Question Period in the House of Commons on Friday, with members of the Opposition demanding that Prime Minister Paul Martin set a firm date to meet with Mr. McGuinty to discuss the gap.
¡°This government should stop taking Ontario voters for granted,¡± Conservative MP Belinda Stronach said, citing the CIBC report.
¡°Mr. Speaker, the Toronto Board of Trade said that this government's failure to address the Ontario gap has resulted in ¡°crumbling infrastructure, declining service levels and increasing municipal and provincial taxes.¡±
Deputy Prime Minister Anne McLellan countered that Mr. Martin has been ¡°absolutely clear¡± about his willingness to ¡°work with the province of ontario, department by department, minister by minister, on issues of substance.
¡°We have been doing that,¡± she said. ¡°We will continue to do that.¡±
The dispute comes as polls suggest dwindling support both nationally and in Ontario for Mr. Martin's Liberals in the wake of damaging testimony at the current federal sponsorship inquiry.
In Friday's report, CIBC World Markets senior economists Warren Lovely said transfers between provinces are an integral part of Canada's federal system and that the idea of the so-called rich provinces helping out others isn't the issue.
But, he said, the "sheer magnitude¡± weighs on what the report called an ¡°already burdened economy, taxing the Ontario government's ability to invest in a strong, vibrant provincial ¨C and hence national ¨C economy.¡±
Toronto Board of Trade president and chief executive Glen Grunwald, in a letter to the Prime Minister, also called on Mr. Martin to sit down with Mr. McGuinty.
"Sooner or later, your government will have to deal with the growing demands across the nation for a fairer fiscal balance between levels of government," he said.
"You and Premier McGuinty have an opportunity to demonstrate how this can be achieved by cooperatively addressing important issues. There is much that you and Premier McGuinty can talk about and act upon. It is time for you to take the meeting, and to take it seriously." |
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| cap |
| Let's see what Harper is made of. |
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| ShadoWolf |
BUSTED
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| Jayx1 |
Translation for those of us that dont speak french?
LOL |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Translation for those of us that dont speak french?
LOL |
26 April 2001, from Paul Martin, to Claude Boulay
Dear Claude,
It is with a great joy that I join my voice with all those which surround it this evening to celebrate your fiftieth birthday. One half-century! What a beautiful vintage that of 1942!
I regret not being able to be with Diane and you to take part in this happy and unique event. An engagement that I cannot move prevents me from being with you all.
However, I would like to thank Diane for her kind invitation; I was very touched by it. I continue to think that the years run on Diane with such an amount of grace and beauty which youth always lives with. Claude, you should follow her example!!
Claude, I would like to take this occasion to offer to you my best wishes of happiness and health...for the next fifty years! To the title of the oldest vintage (probably) of the assembly, I raise my glass to the reunions which are about to start: "Happy birthday, Claude, and of more beautiful years to come. All the best to you!"
Please accept, dear Claude, the expression of my sincerity.
The Honourable Paul Martin
Martin recently claimed to not know the man. :rolleyes: |
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| Jayx1 |
even better about this guy who claims not to remember anything when on the stand:
| quote: | Chretien friend got big fees for little work on outdoor shows, inquiry hears
BRIAN DALY
MONTREAL (CP) - A promoter of two outdoor shows said Monday he's pondering a lawsuit after two sponsorship middlemen, including a friend of Jean Chretien, reaped $1.6 million for work he insists he did.
Documents tabled at the sponsorship inquiry showed that Chretien confidant Jacques Corriveau raked in $1 million in commissions for various work related to two hunting and fishing shows held annually from 1998 to 2002.
Corriveau's take represented more than half of the $1.8 million that taxpayers dished out to brand the events with Canada symbols.
Meanwhile, event promoter Gaetan Mondoux received $50,000 for setting up and promoting each of the shows, for a total of $100,000 over several years.
He said he has never met Corriveau and that Chretien's friend did no work at the events.
"It's clear that it's bull," Mondoux told reporters in an expletive-filled tirade following his brief appearance at the inquiry.
"We're talking about $50,000 (per show) over five years which isn't much for two salons."
Corriveau, 72, has been singled out by ad man Jean Brault in an alleged scam to funnel $1.1 million to the federal Liberal party, but he denies any wrongdoing.
Publisher Luc Lemay, who managed the hunting and fishing-show contract, was paid $600,000 for little more than putting up a few Canada banners, according to documents filed with the inquiry.
He had bought out Mondoux's sponsorship rights in 1999 for the events in Sherbrooke and Trois-Rivieres, Que.
Documents show Lemay and Corriveau clearly got the better of the deal, eventually pulling in more than 15 times what they paid Mondoux.
When presented on the stand with the whopping sums billed by Lemay and Corriveau, Mondoux exclaimed, "I have to change careers."
The inquiry also heard that Lemay's firm exaggerated the attendance at the small regional events to give the appearance the government logos had received major exposure.
Paperwork tabled at the inquiry indicates attendance was way higher than Mondoux's estimate.
Corriveau's bills indicate he performed a range of preparatory tasks for the shows - work Mondoux told the inquiry he did. They include booking radio, television and newspaper ads and setting up signs on site.
The promoter plans to sue Lemay and the federal government to recoup at least part of the $1.6 million that ended up largely in the pockets of the sponsorship middlemen.
Brault says Corriveau was one of the masterminds of the scheme to divert huge cash sums into party coffers in exchange for steering contracts toward Groupaction.
But Corriveau has testified he never solicited cash donations from Brault and didn't send any income to the party.
Also on Monday, Corriveau indicated he was under no obligation to come clean about his windfalls when he spoke to a Globe and Mail reporter in 2002.
The newspaper quoted Corriveau as saying he had no links to the disgraced sponsorship program.
"He (the journalist) had no authority to insist I tell him the truth," Corriveau, who earned $7 million from sponsorship deals in the 1990s, said under cross-examination.
A bit later, he added: "Sometimes what we say to (the media) is twisted to such a degree . . . that I don't take it seriously. This (inquiry) is serious."
Corriveau told the Globe in the interview he had no role in the federal strategy to promote national unity in Quebec though he in fact earned nearly $7 million on contracts related mainly to Quebec hunting and fishing shows.
The newspaper quoted him as saying, "I must say I had no responsibility in all of that . . . All those communications matters do not concern me."
The newspaper also said Corriveau added he had "no link" to Brault's Groupaction firm and that he did "nothing in particular" with Groupe Polygone, though he in fact earned most of his fortune from the two firms.
Another key witness, ad man Claude Boulay, took the stand briefly on Monday and will testify in earnest on Tuesday.
His relationship with Prime Minister Paul Martin is likely to be high on the list of questions.
Of particular interest is a claim by Groupaction employee Alain Renaud that he overheard the two men discussing sponsorship contracts at a Liberal fundraiser. |
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| ShadoWolf |
The federal Lieberals should suffer the fate of the Saskatchewan PC Party.
"Grant Devine's government was defeated in the 1991 election after two terms in power. The PC party was reduced to 10 seats in the legislature.
Devine led what was arguably one of the most corrupt governments in modern Canadian history. Although Devine himself was never accused of criminal wrongdoing, several members of his Cabinet were sent to prison as the result of a kickback scandal that operated during Devine's second term from 1986-1991. Due to these problems, the Saskatchewan Progressive Conservative Party disbanded after his administration. Many former members and supporters now support the Saskatchewan Party." - Wiki |
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| crazedcanuck |
Shado Wolf - (your missing a W in your nickname btw)
If you ever want to be taken seriously, instead of appearing the part of a crazed zealot, you might want to alter your delivery.
I hardly approve of or endorse the Liberals, but everytime I see your childish banter and name calling, I want to beat you silly with their infamous Red Book.
Thanks. |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by crazedcanuck
If you ever want to be taken seriously, instead of appearing the part of a crazed zealot, you might want to alter your delivery.
I hardly approve of or endorse the Liberals, but everytime I see your childish banter and name calling, I want to beat you silly with their infamous Red Book.
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What do you mean by "childish banter and name calling?" Perhaps the term "Lieberals?" That's done quite on purpose in order to distinguish the current corrupt Lieberal party from principled liberals who deserve a clean and credible party. |
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| crazedcanuck |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
What do you mean by "childish banter and name calling?" Perhaps the term "Lieberals?" That's done quite on purpose in order to distinguish the current corrupt Lieberal party from principled liberals who deserve a clean and credible party. |
Exactly my point.
You sound as ridiculous to most people as Michael Moore does to the religous right. |
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