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Paul Martin's "save my ass" address to the nation. (pg. 7)
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by b4k-oz
Don't need to rebut
Lump it :p |
Whatever you say ;) |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by TrueToTheCrew
My point is this Inquiry is all a front and way too many people are waiting for this scripted predetermined report to come out. Now look, Chretien has pretty much appointed all his friends to the supreme court. Ever wonder why Chretiens motions always win in court. Now he's asking the supreme court to remove gomery from the inquiry. Chances are, he will win that motion. I hope mr. dithers will use the not withstanding clause to prevent it (if it can be used).
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Are you aware that this whole thing started by Chretien telling a reporter that if he were looking for a story he'd look into the sponsorship program? Chretien was looking to torpedo Martin. I have met both these men and believe me they hate each other. Chretien will not be calling in any favours to help Martin. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| Sorry but I have to run for now. Thanks, this was entertaining. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Wait a second. Didn't you say earlier in this thread that you were concerned with democracy? Now you suggest that public ignorance is not grounds to delay a general election. I don't understand how you can say such a thing. Anyone that trully cared for democracy would be concerned with making sure that the electorate were as well informed as possible. If the electorate is ignorant the potential that they will make an poor decision is much higher. If the electorate makes a poor decision then we get bad government. If a democracy continually produces bad government due to an ignorant electorate then what good is the democracy? You don't let the inmates run the asylum do you? |
The facts are out there... if the public chooses to ignore them then that is their problem. We cant force people to pay attention. Although I do wish wed have laws like many industrialized nations do that require mandatory voting. Then maybe people would actually pay attention to those who control a lot of their destiny. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Are you aware that this whole thing started by Chretien telling a reporter that if he were looking for a story he'd look into the sponsorship program? Chretien was looking to torpedo Martin. I have met both these men and believe me they hate each other. Chretien will not be calling in any favours to help Martin. |
Thank you for adding a nother level to this story that has been ignored. There is more fighting within the Liberals than there is between the parties. How can a government govern when they cant even get along themselves?
These guys have got to go... |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
The facts are out there... if the public chooses to ignore them then that is their problem. We cant force people to pay attention. Although I do wish wed have laws like many industrialized nations do that require mandatory voting. Then maybe people would actually pay attention to those who control a lot of their destiny. |
okay, last post for the day.
Jayx, I studied such systems in school.... Ireland is a good example. The problem with mandatory voting is that it does not cause people to pay closer attention to politics, it causes them to make bad decisions. In such systems the candidate or party (depending on the system) listed on the top of the page always ends up near to first or first. This is because most people who could care less but show up to the polls in order to avoid fine or arrest just mark the top box. Forced participation skews the results. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
okay, last post for the day.
Jayx, I studied such systems in school.... Ireland is a good example. The problem with mandatory voting is that it does not cause people to pay closer attention to politics, it causes them to make bad decisions. In such systems the candidate or party (depending on the system) listed on the top of the page always ends up near to first or first. This is because most people who could care less but show up to the polls in order to avoid fine or arrest just mark the top box. Forced participation skews the results. |
Hmmm thats possible but in countries that ive seen such as Australia there is a very informed electorate. Most Aussies ive met in their 20s are much more clued into their politics than we are. |
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| b4k-oz |
If only you guys could really post some valid reasons to validate our initiative to trust the Tories again, then you could have a shot at convincing ppl to vote your way.
Sadly nothing that you've posted convinces me that there is a reason to trust the Tories any more than any other party.
Therefore, they are all the same in my eyes. I don't trust the Tories any more than I trust the Liberals. Atleast the Liberals came clean and the Tories are still hiding behind their corrupt govt. policies. The Liberals may pay (b/c it's the will of the people) but they'll be under a heavy microscope after that...and frankly I hope people are willing to take the chance, rather than have a whole new mess brought in.
Mark my words TOTAs...if the Tories win a majority....we will be under a new recession...and the Tories will point the finger at the Liberals again because that's what they do best |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
If Canadians are ignoring the testimony who is to say they will pay attention to the report? They didnt seem to care about Sheila Fraser's series of reports did they? Not calling an election due to perceived public ignorance is a weak arguement. Calling an election sooner than later and allowing the elctorate decide will clear the air and allow the government to govern again. If the public votes the Liberals back in that will be their decision. However bad a decision it would be we could at least then carry on with other tasks.
The Liberals need to be punished for what they did though and that will always be my position unless somehow they are found not guilty. But since Martin himself on national tv already acknowledge the corruption that is not going to happen.
Martin needs to either resign or call an election. He must be held accountable for what his party has done to Canadians without question. |
Jay, that's ridiculous...calling an election now simply results with people voting on emotion based upon allegations...rather than thinking things through and voting based upon the FACTS that come out of a closer examination during the inquiry.
How does a vote now "clear the air" better than allowing the Gomery inquiry to be finished?
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Thank you for adding a nother level to this story that has been ignored. There is more fighting within the Liberals than there is between the parties. How can a government govern when they cant even get along themselves?
These guys have got to go... |
riiiiight, and there's no in-fighting in the Conservative party, LOL.
The very fact that there IS in-fighting should reinforce the need to see the Gomery inquiry conlcuded prior to an election. The fact that Chretien is desperately trying to have Gomery removed should be evidence enough that the inquiry is serving it's purpose. Chretien is scared, Martin apprently is not.
So Harper would have an election called now because he doesn't care to see Chretien or anyone punished, it's just because as of right now, the ENTIRE Liberal party is under fire. If Gomery's conclusions somewhat exonerate Martin, Harper's chances of winning an election greatly diminish.
That's what pisses me off right now...this is NOT about punishing those involved in the scandal, not about properly running the country...this is about Harper being an opportunist to get into office...because he could/will never win an election on his own, and his party's, merits. |
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| feems |
I find this inquiry quite entertaining a once majority party , is now crumbling by there own corruption , to think canadian politics was getting boring :P , no seriously are we really surprised by the findings corruption is there just thought canadians were better at hinding it lol, after all they have american kiss ass martin as their leader, and I dont think Chretien is crying much watching his rival burn.
i also agree that the inquiry must be completed then an election to be called as said by mark t , i also agree tht voters will vote on emotion if one was called before it finishes rather than fact. |
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| ShadoWolf |
The Commission will be done by the end of May. At that point all the facts will be out. 95% of the facts are already out, available right here:
http://www.gomery.ca/en/transcripts/
Gomery will not be doing anything else except come up with some recommendations. The Lieberals cannot be the ones to implement those recommendations because the Lieberal Party itself is the problem.
There's no need to wait until January. Martin only wants to wait to get the Lieberal poll numbers back up, probably by going on a spending spree, buying voters in strategic parts of the country.
They have to go right now so we can clean up the mess. |
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| Jayx1 |
There are already announcement after announcments being suddenly rolled out in the wake of this.
I guess thats the only time these guys ever feel that it's time to govern, when there is a real threat that they may lose the right to.
Lets have an election after the Gomery inquiry wraps up im May and let the new cabinet implement the reccomendations |
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