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Welcome Private Health Care (Quebec first, Canada next?) (pg. 3)
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| starsearcher |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
By the way, I know for a FACT that there's queue-jumping in Canada. It's all about connections. |
Very true :whip: |
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| Jayx1 |
| Great let there be queue jumping in private facilities if people want to pay. It means shorter wait times for people in the public system. Consider it like being in line at the supermarket and suddenly they open up another check out lane. |
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| b4k-oz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Actually the rest of the story in my eyes would be a reduction in taxes. Obviously it should be expected. As for cuts, who made all the cuts in the 90s to health care? Paul Martin. He downloaded all the expenses to the provinces. Harris had no choice but to work with less. Even socialist provinces like sask and BC were forced to make cuts. Who just delisted a whole host of services on the provincial level while raising taxes (health levy)? Liberal Dalton Mcguinty.
Id even be happy if taxes stayed the same and services were better paid for if private facilities took the strain off our system.
How is it that most of the world can do it this way yet somehow we are special? |
Jay...again your not doing your homework...everyone received a cut back...and it was the direct result of the tories in the previous govt. of Mulroney that caused the liberals to cut back. However...the tories had an option...they could have re-allocated and moved funds around to supplement where it was needed but instead decided to give the businesses what they demanded rather than be equitable in their distribution.
PS... read my revised opinion. |
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| preylude |
| quote: | Originally posted by b4k-oz
If someone from the Bronfman family here in Canada needed to get a rare bone marrow replacement and someone else has been waiting for over a year... I do not believe it is ethically correct for the Bronfman family to bypass and sneak it out from under the person who is at the top of the list...just because they can afford to bribe someone for that rare bone marrow. |
An excellent point. Two-tier doesn't just mean rich people get the health care "they deserve". It means they are actually _displacing_ others. They are pushing everyone else _even further_ down the queue to save their own greedy asses. Just because they're sitting on piles of money and don't have to spend 90% of their income on basic living expenses. |
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| BigTongue |
This still happens today..
my grandfather was on a "waiting list" to get his heart surgery..
after he donated $5000 to the hospital he was doing it at, one of the top surgeons there "Volonteered" to do it off time..
don't think this don't fly here... if you have the money, by god use it! that's what you work for |
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| ShadoWolf |
A major health care problem that noone's mentioned is the fiscal imbalance and the equalization system. In the Atlantic provinces, federal transfers now account for more than half their budgets. :eek: :eek:
No wonder Atlantic Canadians are so wary of biting the hand that feeds them... |
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| Jayx1 |
If this were to be done properly there would be public hospitals and private hospitals. No one would be taking the place of the poor person who needs surgury because they would be in a completely different system. Im not advocating public hospitals allowing for queue jumping. Im advocating that 100% private hospitals be allowed to open and take the pressure off the public ones. This is exactly how it works in most places. You have 100% right to use the public hospital but also have the option to use a private one if u can afford it. Generally service is the same in both except the wait times are shorter in the private ones. There is nothing wrong with that.
As for cuts, it had nothing to do with mulroney. In fact Mulroney ran a deficit in order to support the high costs of healthcare. Also, the Socialist NDP made HUGE cuts to health care back in the early 90s. Am i the only one who remembers how pissed off nurses and doctors were during the rae years? |
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| loca |
| quote: | Originally posted by starsearcher
Very true :whip: |
That's so true.
Anyhow i really don't see what's so wrong with having both! If you can afford it, get private healthcare. If not, don't! It's pretty simple. Like Jay said, a lot of European countries function perfectly well with 2 healthcare systems, privatized and public, why can't Canada do the same?
I pay insurance in my country for private healthcare, and do i get better service? Hell yeah! Do i have to wait in line for 3 hours in the emergency room? Nope. And even people who use public healthcare there don't have to wait that long. Why? Because all of a sudden those public healthcare institutions faced a very real danger: people had the choice! Which means they had to step up the way they dealt with patients in order to keep things functioning. So what happened? Our public healthcare started providing better service to ensure that the whole population of those who could afford it (and believe me, there are many as privatized healthcare really doesn't cost that much in Belgium anyways), would not be going over to the private sector.
In a way it also helped because the people who did move over to private helped unclog the system a little bit, meaning there were less patients to take care of in the public hospitals thereby allowing physicans and nurses to be able to fit in more patients than they were previously able to.
I don't know why some of you guys keep comparing this issue to the states. We're not asking for private only, but for the people to be given the option to choose between the 2. |
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| preylude |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
Actually health care is better in the U.S. than in Canada for the vast majority of people. Americans spend more per capita, but they get FAR more per capita in terms of service. |
Show me a study that backs that statement up.
| quote: | | Also, health insurance is reasonable compared to higher taxes in Canada. |
Another common myth. Taxes in Canada and the States are nearly the same for a lot of income brackets.
| quote: | | By the way, I know for a FACT that there's queue-jumping in Canada. It's all about connections. |
Yeah. You can also buy sex, stolen merchandise, or have someone killed. It's more about money and greed than connections, actually. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by preylude
Another common myth. Taxes in Canada and the States are nearly the same for a lot of income brackets.
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I nearly choked on my orange juice when i read this. |
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| preylude |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
If this were to be done properly there would be public hospitals and private hospitals. No one would be taking the place of the poor person who needs surgury because they would be in a completely different system. Im not advocating public hospitals allowing for queue jumping. Im advocating that 100% private hospitals be allowed to open and take the pressure off the public ones. This is exactly how it works in most places. You have 100% right to use the public hospital but also have the option to use a private one if u can afford it. Generally service is the same in both except the wait times are shorter in the private ones. |
Sure, private hospitals would take the "pressure" off public ones. And they'd take all the good doctors, bid up the price for medical equipment, bid up the price for drugs, making everything cost more for everyone. And then private insurance companies would step in to "help out" by taking 50% of the money as profits, and denying claims after the fact. Have you ever heard stories about trying to get American insurance companies to actually _pay_ for medical treatment? It's absolutely insane. |
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| b4k-oz |
Preylude...seems like only you and I are the only ones that have actually studied the affects.
Sad....Very Sad :sadgreen: when Canadians delude themselves into thinking that having public and private sectors will not allow for queu jumping. I mean come on...it's only common sense that there are many who require rare forms of blood, bone or tissue...(not to mention the black market selling of limbs and organs in Canada) and look on this as an opportunity to bribe preferrential treatment. |
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