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Welcome Private Health Care (Quebec first, Canada next?) (pg. 7)
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
the US is actually spending A LOT MORE money on their healthcare system than most other countries... obviously they have some serious problems... |
...and they also come up with most of the world's vaccines, treatments, pharmaceuticals, inventions, etc.
Innovation. |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
And I don't mean this as a "jab" (as Karim likes to call it) - all I am saying is that National Medicare is much more than "socialized health care" to a country like Canada (where all the provinces AGREED to join confederation under certain terms). |
Not true. Health care is under the exclusive jurisdicition of the provinces. The Canada Health Act just transfers money to the provinces (contingent on 5 criteria).
Also, I can assure you that the Founding Fathers of Confederation didn't give a rat's ass about socialized health care.
| quote: | | Various territories of countries in Europe are not bound together as loosely as the provinces in Canada are - nor do they depend on a national system such as medicare to create incentives for co-operation, nationalism and confederation. |
Here's the real problem: the Liberals destroyed the Dominion of Canada and the identity that flowed therefrom.
YOU CAN'T BASE A COUNTRY'S IDENTITY ON A GOVERNMENT PROGRAM!!!
Canada, as constituted in 1982, is a farce and is doomed to fail.
It's not just identity, it's also money and power. The Lieberal Party is a CENTRALIST party that wants the country to be controlled from Ottawa. That, more than anything, created the separatist movements across the country. |
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| djeso |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Hopefully we can get past this stupid idea that "free health care is ultimately what being canadian is all about" (in other words we are better than you dumb americans) And hopefully we can stop using scare words like 2-tier. When someone tells me that their opponant supports two-tier it makes me want to vote for the opponant.
First its not free, we pay dearly for it. Second our system is getting worse and worse while getting more and more expensive. Third universal healthcare is about as canadian as palm trees. Up until the late 60s it didnt even exist. How did canadians define themselves before that? |
I sure hope that they will lower our income taxes aswell |
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| amb_ |
| RJ, I could not have said it better. |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
I find those who are of the "this is good for Canada" or "it works in Nantucket" to not have a serious grasp as to confederation, the means by which and why provinces have CHOSEN to be a part of Canada.
The spirit of co-operation, distributed risk, shared resources and weath are paramount to Canada functioning and remaining a country.
This is something that the mentioned "Nantucket" countries cannot also claim. Canada is unique in it's CHOSEN confederation and the loose framework of Federal and Provincial rights/responsibilities.
Anything, and I mean ANYTHING that changes this dynamic in a significant way (as this ruling now has) creates the possibility of a more fractured, less united Canada (and that for which Canada stands).
I challenge you all to step back and consider the deeper story and scratch beyond the surface.
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So we need socialized health-care to maintain national unity, of all things??
Redistribution schemes, not to mention federal incursions into provincial area of jurisdictions, increase animosity and DECREASE national unity. Consider the NEP or the National Policy. |
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| Thracky |
| quote: | Originally posted by dartrance
thracky: did you have to wait long for the actual surgey though? |
A couple months because it was technically an elective surgery so nothing really life threatening. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tag
Funny thing the US is seriously thinking of going to social healthcare like what we have now. |
No they arent. they are thinking about going the european route which is two tiered. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
It's easy to comment on a system and how it should work when one isn't a stakeholder (meaning AFAIK you're not paying into the system via income tax).
And I don't mean this as a "jab" (as Karim likes to call it) - all I am saying is that National Medicare is much more than "socialized health care" to a country like Canada (where all the provinces AGREED to join confederation under certain terms).
Various territories of countries in Europe are not bound together as loosely as the provinces in Canada are - nor do they depend on a national system such as medicare to create incentives for co-operation, nationalism and confederation. |
The country was not founded nor bound together by healthcare. Public insurance has only been in existance since trudeau. Before the late 60s we had pretty much a 100% private system. |
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| Jayx1 |
For all those fearing that we will have an american system. That is not what anyone is advovating. What we want is mixed public and private hospitals as opposed to the 100% public (canada) and 100% private (USA).
New hospitals would open but as private hospitals. The people that go there would take the pressure off the existing public hospitals. Universal access would still exist and would actually be faster, better and less expensive to the taxpayer if we had a mix of services. |
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| malek |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
For all those fearing that we will have an american system. That is not what anyone is advovating. What we want is mixed public and private hospitals as opposed to the 100% public (canada) and 100% private (USA).
New hospitals would open but as private hospitals. The people that go there would take the pressure off the existing public hospitals. Universal access would still exist and would actually be faster, better and less expensive to the taxpayer if we had a mix of services. |
that would be good if we have an unlimited supply of doctors and other medical staff...
the problem is that we don't, schools barely keep up with the demand. |
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| b4k-oz |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
I find those who are of the "this is good for Canada" or "it works in Nantucket" to not have a serious grasp as to confederation, the means by which and why provinces have CHOSEN to be a part of Canada.
The spirit of co-operation, distributed risk, shared resources and weath are paramount to Canada functioning and remaining a country.
This is something that the mentioned "Nantucket" countries cannot also claim. Canada is unique in it's CHOSEN confederation and the loose framework of Federal and Provincial rights/responsibilities.
Anything, and I mean ANYTHING that changes this dynamic in a significant way (as this ruling now has) creates the possibility of a more fractured, less united Canada (and that for which Canada stands).
I challenge you all to step back and consider the deeper story and scratch beyond the surface.
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Yes, healthcare in Canada needs reform - PPPs (Private/Public Partnerships) are a positive option (Private firms delivering publicly funded services) for cost control - HOWEVER, multi-tier heathcare is NOT the solution for Canada. |
Thank you RJ! I had to leave but I'm glad you came back into this thread to say what's on our minds.
Frankly this is a sensitive topic for many....but I'm finding that most new immigrants and people who have not made any substantial contribution through their paycheques are very quick to endorse private healthcare and 2tier system.
Good solid points RJ.
NOW TURN AWAY EVERY1.
TO SHADOWOLF-----WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM....FOR MONTHS ALL I'VE SEEN OUTTA YOU IS YOUR OWN PERSONAL BASHING AGENDA AGAINST THE LIBERALS. STOP BEING A WALKING PENIS HEAD. FRANKLIE WITH ALL YOUR LIBERAL BASHING...YOU SOUND LIKE AN IMMIGRANT OR JUST A TOTALLY F^CKED UP KID WHO PROBABLY SITS AT HOME DRINKING SOME CHEAPASS COLA AND LOOKING FOR POLITICAL THREADS TO BASH. WHY I WUDN'T VE SURPRISED IF YOUR ONE OF THE TORIES LITTLE ERRAND BOYS WHO SCOUT THE NET TO POST THE SEED OF LIBERAL HATRED.
FYI...THIS FORUM IS CALLED TRANCEADDICT---> AND I'VE NEVER ONCE SEEN YOU CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING SUBSTANCIAL TO THE BOARDS BY WAY OF MUSIC. SO IF YOU WANNA BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY....THEN WHY DON'T YOU VOICE OUT IN PARLIAMENT....AND LEAVE THIS BOARD TO PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT THE MUSIC, THE LOCAL DJ'S AND OUR COUNTRY
CUZ WE ALL KNOW YOU COULD GIVE A FLYING F^CK ABOUT CANADA
OK I'm done ranting
....sorry everyone for my outburst. |
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| TrickDaddE |
| quote: | Originally posted by b4k-oz
TO SHADOWOLF-----WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM....FOR MONTHS ALL I'VE SEEN OUTTA YOU IS YOUR OWN PERSONAL BASHING AGENDA AGAINST THE LIBERALS. STOP BEING A WALKING PENIS HEAD. FRANKLIE WITH ALL YOUR LIBERAL BASHING...YOU SOUND LIKE AN IMMIGRANT OR JUST A TOTALLY F^CKED UP KID WHO PROBABLY SITS AT HOME DRINKING SOME CHEAPASS COLA AND LOOKING FOR POLITICAL THREADS TO BASH. WHY I WUDN'T VE SURPRISED IF YOUR ONE OF THE TORIES LITTLE ERRAND BOYS WHO SCOUT THE NET TO POST THE SEED OF LIBERAL HATRED.
FYI...THIS FORUM IS CALLED TRANCEADDICT---> AND I'VE NEVER ONCE SEEN YOU CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING SUBSTANCIAL TO THE BOARDS BY WAY OF MUSIC. SO IF YOU WANNA BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY....THEN WHY DON'T YOU VOICE OUT IN PARLIAMENT....AND LEAVE THIS BOARD TO PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT THE MUSIC, THE LOCAL DJ'S AND OUR COUNTRY
CUZ WE ALL KNOW YOU COULD GIVE A FLYING F^CK ABOUT CANADA
OK I'm done ranting
....sorry everyone for my outburst. |
Put that in your pipe and smoke it! S.W. |
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