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Martial arts (pg. 4)
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| Michael19 |
| quote: | Originally posted by astroboy
I've studied quite a few martial arts. Muay Thai is very practical and is great for self defence (I'm not sure what you mean by striking not being good for self defence).. |
sorry, should made it more clear. Theres no tradtional blocking is there? i mean self defense as in what cops or sercurity do. As an attacking self defense it looks great. BUt legally you could be fairly screwed by using that against someone.
Aint touching Krav Maha with a barge poll. Over here its really expensive to take a course, and seem like a con( i know it isnt, but they say things like "learn how to protect yourself in 2 days")
http://www.kravmagaireland.com/
thats the website, atfer reading the first page thats plenty to know i wont go near it.
Excellent post Alccode, cheers. very helpful. I will definitly check out wing chun, seems to be what i am looking for. I know, i plan on researching them on the internet, then when its narrowed down, take the classes and see which is the best one for me. |
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| Orbax |
Alc...wtf.
"The deal with learning a martial art is that if you want to become really efficient, you have to internalize the movements in such a way that subsequent instantiations of what you've learned (like in a fight) have the greatest generalizability and applicability"
wtf could that POSSIBLY mean. total bs. |
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| Michael19 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
Alc...wtf.
"The deal with learning a martial art is that if you want to become really efficient, you have to internalize the movements in such a way that subsequent instantiations of what you've learned (like in a fight) have the greatest generalizability and applicability"
wtf could that POSSIBLY mean. total bs. |
:conf:
I think he means that in a fight situation, your sub-concious kinda of takes over.
YOu train MA so the moves become embeeded into your brian and you do them them without thinking when the time arises. |
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| *InVeRs3* |
like i said before
If you want to learn how to fight, get a school where you spar. Make sure it's good too. MA is expensive and you don't want to be paying a lot of money for hitting air or point sparring. And I suggest you pay monthly and not sign any 6 month contracts or anything either.
edit:
if you want to learn MA for self defense, you don't need to learn it. Moving out of/staying away from bad neighborhoods and being aware really helps and is cheaper. |
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| Orbax |
If thats what he was trying to say, he took the longest most convoluted route he could. Its annoying when people try to take the "art" of beating the out of people to some level of personal enlightenment.
Fighting is bad, makes you feel terrible about what youve done to someone. To say its some kind of internalized glory is just wrong, and sounds like youve never been in a fight. |
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| Michael19 |
| quote: | Originally posted by *InVeRs3*
if you want to learn MA for self defense, you don't need to learn it. Moving out of/staying away from bad neighborhoods and being aware really helps and is cheaper. |
if only it wwas that easy.
Aslo, that not the only reason i am doing it. If it was i would just carry a knife probaly. |
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| *InVeRs3* |
| quote: | Originally posted by Michael19
if only it wwas that easy.
Aslo, that not the only reason i am doing it. If it was i would just carry a knife probaly. |
Ah I see.
No offense to people who posted but BJJ, lots of types of wrestling and Boxing and all it's forms are the most efficient (you probobly already know this) arts. Almost everything else sucks. BJJ is also a fun sport to do. But I'd go to an MMA school for self defense because it teaches striking and grappling and it's a more realistic way to defend for an actual street fight. |
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| DjConfessions |
sunday is the next Pride FC show.
Pawel (judo) will be taking on nogueira (bjj)
One thing that sets this aside from other matches is that i believe both these fighters are not known for any cross trained techniques. Maybe a little boxing, but definently not the well-roundedness of other fighters in MMA sports. |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
If thats what he was trying to say, he took the longest most convoluted route he could. Its annoying when people try to take the "art" of beating the out of people to some level of personal enlightenment. |
I agree with the bit about convoluted expression. He made a relatively simple concept sound unnecessarily esoteric. With regards to calling martial arts "arts" I would disagree with your generalization that a martial art is all about "beating the crap" out of someone. Some Chinese schools have things like meditation and traditional Chinese medicine as part of their curriculum. Also others such as tai chi chuan or aikido emphasise health, self-control and the use of the opponents force against them, which philosophically is a lot more "passive" than beating the out of someone muay thai or Western boxing style.
| quote: | | Fighting is bad, makes you feel terrible about what youve done to someone. To say its some kind of internalized glory is just wrong, and sounds like youve never been in a fight. |
Fighting in certain situations can certainly make some people feel bad afterwards... I would suggest that the more skill you have in MA the less damage you need to do and the less bad you will feel about it. In terms of "internalization" I don;t think he was talking about glory as such. I think what he meant was the same kind of internalisation that occurs with, say, jazz pianists when they practice over and over. The movements and combinations become internalised as a natural response to certain situations so you no longer ned to consciously think about each move and what the most appropriate thing to do in a fight is, as your body has learnt to react appropriately on an almost reflex level.
Back on to the topic I agree with what people said about choosing schools and teachers rather than styles. You should first decide roughly what kind of training you will most enjoy (eg. ground-work, joint-locks, throwing or strikes, whether you want internal work etc...) then just look at the quality of the training in the schools in your area and decide based on that. Another warning I will give you is that the world of MA attracts a lot of frauds and a quite a few whackos... Particularly the traditional martial arts. It can be hard for a novice to decide whether the guy he is learning from actually knows what he claims he does or if he just did a few weeks at a couple of different schools and threw his own style together calling it traditional. With Chinese martial arts always try to check up on lineage and whether the person really was a disciple of the master he claims to have learned from. Try to make sure you're not getting ripped off... (ie geting charged a ridiculous amount to buy 20 different uniforms, get graded every week and go to special seminars just to learn a phoney system and get a black belt after two years with a side serve of French fries).
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| astroboy |
| Another point with regards to Muay Thai and blocking is that it does have very simple but effective blocks. Though you would be deluded in thinking that you'll get to the stage where you get in a real street fight and will feel confident enough in your ability to wait for the other guy to strike first. It is usually pretty clear when things have got to the stage where violence will ensue and if you see the opportunity to strike first you should always take it. |
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| Orbax |
aye, my experiencec with this (aiki-jujitsu, boxing, wrestling, and then getting into karate, aikido, and tae kwando) is that in the "pure" fighting arenas of boxing and submission wrestling it just comes down to "do this if they do that, try to punch them here" etc..
from my time in the dojos...they mixed in a LOT of life philosophy, centered beings, ritual, ceremony...and thats cool if thats what you are in there for, but the sensai was taking me and my brother aside and giving us private lessons because we were focusing on the fighting side, we wanted to learn it all and went home every day and practiced for hours. We were just ripping through the lessons.
Then there were people there who were purple belt and had been there for 5 years that got stomped. I could have done anything I wanted to them.
A lot of people go in for the whole experience. A fighting summer camp kind of thing. Again, thats great if thats why youre there, but if you REALLY plan on fighting...its gonna take a really long time. The courses are just too slow. you actually practice for 30 minutes and the other hour is stretching and running 20 times around the pad with someone on your back...which does nothing for you...
just a lot of bull mixed in, and unless you are 12,dont start now. Youll be 30 by the time youre a fighting machine and by that time all of your college and bar fights are over and youll never need it again. Spend 100 bucks, get a canvas puncing bag, anotehr 60 for good gloves, and google "boxing technique" and practice a few hours a day for a few months. Youll hit like a champ.
It all comes down to the fact that if you havent actually thrown on light weight gloves and went after a partner and you are trying to knock each other out...you wont learn. Sparring is too nice, its too friendly, and you wont understand the ferocity of attacks until you go all out.
Experience, in the end, is what will determine your success as a fighter. and no pain, no contact arenas will probably hinder you because youll think you can just walk into something and be pretty much ok. |
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| EvilTree |
If you want to take any martial art and you just want it for basic self defence a la taking on a bully or a drunk guy outside, any art will give you the basics to win a one on one fight. (Because most people have little clue to how to properly fight, though some may have background in wrestling from high school)
If you want to take it a bit more seriously and be able to take on someone who also knows a martial art, you have to be able to be proficient at following areas.
-Stand up striking: Means both you and your opponent are standing up. You must be able to punch, kick and/or elbow, knee, whatever. Most important aspect is punching. So you must be able to do basic boxing.
-Clich: Means you are close to your enemy, practically hugging him. Clich area, you have to be able to take down your opponent to the ground, or avoid getting taken down.
-Ground: Means either you or your opponent is either belly up or down on the ground and either you or your enemy is on top. You must be able to control your opponent by using techniques while avoiding being defeated.
Most martial arts will concentrate on one area. Some like Jeet Kune Do, try to concentrate on all three. In any case, if you want to be proficient martial artist, you must be able in all three areas.
Also consider what interest you. Remember, if it's not fun for you, you will probably quit sooner or later. some arts are more fun for some people. Consider your body strengths. For example, I am small, but very agile so tae kwon do works well for me. Some arts, body size will not matter so much. (Though it is important to be fit!)
Having decided upon a style, go visit the school. A lot of places are junk and are just after your money. Have a talk with the instructor(s). Learn what their philosophy and ethics are. Observe few classes.
Keep in mind a few things.
You will only get out what you put in. More effort you put in, more you'll learn.
Be prepared to accept pain, even injuries.
Have a proper attitude. Don't be cocky, because there's always someone who can beat your ass and might just do it if you're a jerk. If you want to learn a martial art to hurt someone because you're a jerk, don't bother. It's not for you.
When in a fight, first one to lose his/her will to fight loses. Be aggressive, but be decisive. Be prepare to take the fight to the extreme, to the point where you may injure or even kill your opponent to save your life or someone elses.
If you're in a fight and someone brings out a gun, either try to run away safely, or give up. You're not superman, and you'll probably get shot if you resist. Same thing with a knife or a bat, unless you're properly trained.
If you're in a fight against multiple attackers, run away. You're not superman and you'll get beaten badly. |
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