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What does God have against the scouts? (pg. 5)
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by squirrelly
Evolution.
Seriously, do all of you fail your Science exams? It boggles my mind. I can't see any of you passing your Science classes. Or do you simply just memorize and then through everything out the window? You choose to believe in and accept medical advances, but when it comes to the creation of life, Science and evolution, it could only have been God? |
In america god is science ;) |
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by squirrelly
Evolution.
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It doesn't really make sense to say that evolution created life, as you need both survival and reproduction to talk about evolution, and these concepts presuppose the existence of life. However, evolution might very well be responsible for shaping the life that we see today.
(*Sits back and waits for Mister Opus to charge out of his hibernation*)
| quote: | Originally posted by metalgearsolid
So what created life? |
Who says that life was created? It could be the result of random events. And even if it *was* created, saying that God did it doesn't really explain anything, as it begs the question "what created God?".
I'll never get why it should be easier to accept God's existence as an unconditional given rather than that of our own?!? |
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| squirrelly |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
In america god is science ;) |
Stupidity. |
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| squirrelly |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
It doesn't really make sense to say that evolution created life, as you need both survival and reproduction to talk about evolution, and these concepts presuppose the existence of life. However, evolution might very well be responsible for shaping the life that we see today. |
Yes indeed but remember Earth was once just a lava planet. It evolved into the earth we have right now. I am no scientist but I'm sure there are plenty of books that are more able to explain the specifics. Or, you can take an Earth/Science class. You're expecting me to believe that something unexplainable, unseeable, and unknown is responsible for all of life? I don't think so. Show me some proof. |
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| trancaholic |
Well, it appears as if you use "evolve" in a somewhat different manner than most scientists. By definition a singleton (such as Earth) cannot "evolve". Only populations of entities can evolve (and, yes, I've read about Darwinian evolution). Scientifically speaking, Earth without its creatures did not "evolve" into the earth we know today, but is simply the unavoidable result of lumping the correct amounts of different atoms into a pile and send it spinning around a star for some time, as stated by the laws of physics (e.g. the gradual concentration of dense matter closer to the center of the sphere and slow cooling of the surface). It's no more of an evolution than the fact that a heavy object if left alone in mid air, will fall to the surface of the earth, or that an egg, if left in boiling water for ten minutes, will turn solid.
I don't advocate that an unseen being sparked life, and don't expect you to take on that belief. I'm totally open to the possibility, though - just as I am open to the possibility that it was a random accident, or an unavoidable result of chemical processes that we do not fully understand yet. I categorize the question into the pile of questions that I cannot answer, and I'm fine by that. So in a sense I do suggest that the cause of life is "unknown".
If you, in the absense of proofs decide to take on a demonstrably flawed theory of the origin of life (evolution), rather than accept the matter as unsettled, then you're as scientifically perverted as the kids who memorize results for science class and switch to orthodox religious "explanations" when they leave the classroom. |
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| squirrelly |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
If you, in the absense of proofs decide to take on a demonstrably flawed theory of the origin of life (evolution), rather than accept the matter as unsettled, then you're as scientifically perverted as the kids who memorize results for science class and switch to orthodox religious "explanations" when they leave the classroom. |
I'm not taking on theories, I'm simply stating that if I were to pick a reason/way as to how life was created, I'll lean more towards Scientific studies rather than the faith that something "unseen" is the creator of life. It is understandable that not everything is scientifically explained... yet. But for an individual to put all of their faith and to believe in something that cannot be proven by any sort of matter or tests or studies at all, seems ridiculous and far fetched.
Perhaps I am mis-using the word "evolution" but I'm sure you're understanding my point. I think I did pretty well considering English is not my first language. I was grasping for a word to help describe something I was talking about and that was the first thing that popped into my head. Apologies that you simply cannot take it for what I meant. And actually according to the dictionary it was perfectly acceptable to say that the planet of Earth evolved when it went from being a lava state to the planet that we are currently existing on:
| quote: |
Main Entry: evoˇluˇtion
Pronunciation: "e-v&-'lü-sh&n, "E-v&-
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin evolution-, evolutio unrolling, from evolvere
1 : one of a set of prescribed movements
2 a : a process of change in a certain direction : UNFOLDING b : the action or an instance of forming and giving something off : EMISSION c (1) : a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state : GROWTH (2) : a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance d : something evolved
3 : the process of working out or developing
4 a : the historical development of a biological group (as a race or species) : PHYLOGENY b : a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations
5 : the extraction of a mathematical root
6 : a process in which the whole universe is a progression of interrelated phenomena |
I took the liberty of bold facing the parts of the definition that might help you understand the contexts in which I was using the word. |
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by squirrelly
I'm not taking on theories, I'm simply stating that if I were to pick a reason/way as to how life was created, I'll lean more towards Scientific studies rather than the faith that something "unseen" is the creator of life. It is understandable that not everything is scientifically explained... yet. But for an individual to put all of their faith and to believe in something that cannot be proven by any sort of matter or tests or studies at all, seems ridiculous and far fetched. |
Now I understand what you mean. In your initial post you stated "evolution" as an answer to what created life and followed up with a comment about science class, so I took it that by evolution you meant the Darwinian hypothesis. Apologies for misunderstanding, but if evolution is simply meant to be "some process" towards higher complexity through interrelated phenomena (as in the dictionary definition you quoted) then it's not really a clear answer to the question, as that process could be orchestrated by a god and still be evolution. But again, sorry for misunderstanding.
| quote: | Originally posted by squirrelly
Perhaps I am mis-using the word "evolution" but I'm sure you're understanding my point. I think I did pretty well considering English is not my first language. I was grasping for a word to help describe something I was talking about and that was the first thing that popped into my head. Apologies that you simply cannot take it for what I meant. |
Now, don't play the innocent foreigner attacked by the evil forum troll. First of all, English is my second language too. Second, my first reply to you was clean (and you had even complained that nobody would debate you), and you answered it by something that could easily be interpreted as questioning my knowledge (and consequently implying that I am the kind of person that would lecture you on things I know about):
| quote: | Originally posted by squirrelly
Or, you can take an Earth/Science class. |
You then followed that by painting up a straw man
| quote: | Originally posted by squirrelly
You're expecting me to believe that something unexplainable, unseeable, and unknown is responsible for all of life? |
basically putting me in the same group as the religious fanatics of this thread, even if the second part of the very post you replied to was a dismissal of their ideas. Both are rude argumentation tactics, and I don't think that my insistence on clarifying what is meant by evolution comes even close to that level of contempt for the other person's intellect. |
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| mark_the_gooner |
Even if you don't believe what the Bible says is true, it still has an answer to any "right"/"wrong" doing. Anything in life you do and think "was that right of me?" if you look in the Bible, do a bit of interpreting (since it is just under 2000 years old) you should find an answer.
Also since alot of what the new testament (in the bible) says, has been proven true by scientists/historians/astrologists/etc.. it is hard to find that some of it is a lie.
An example i can think of at the moment is: the star above bethlehem, astrologists originally thought "this is nonsense, we've analysed the movement of stars & planets and seen that there couldn't have been any bright star/planet "above" bethlehem" but when they looked back about 6 years they saw that there was a "bright star" (actually Jupiter i think, which obviously was bright because it was reflecting the sun). Also this kind of thing only ever happened in those days when a king was born (though i guess this leads to another belief).
And a last note, i guess someone's belief relies on experience, e.g they know (or are) someone that has prayed for something and it actually has happened. |
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| Aiwendil |
| quote: | Originally posted by squirrelly
Evolution.
Seriously, do all of you fail your Science exams? It boggles my mind. I can't see any of you passing your Science classes. Or do you simply just memorize and then through everything out the window? You choose to believe in and accept medical advances, but when it comes to the creation of life, Science and evolution, it could only have been God? |
Medical advances are visible and provable things that happen very often, things that people see the effects of every day, sweet cheeks. Unlike the creation of mankind. So that analogy is false, and in fact your entire "rant" there is at least one logical fallacy. |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by mark_the_gooner
Even if you don't believe what the Bible says is true, it still has an answer to any "right"/"wrong" doing. Anything in life you do and think "was that right of me?" if you look in the Bible, do a bit of interpreting (since it is just under 2000 years old) you should find an answer. |
So, its impossible to know right and wrong if you dont read the bible? And the bible is the only answer to what is right and wrong, its impossible to think by yourself? :conf: |
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| ::TranceVanDyk:: |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
So, its impossible to know right and wrong if you dont read the bible? And the bible is the only answer to what is right and wrong, its impossible to think by yourself? :conf: |
well, according to the doctrine, our moral code is currupt. some people dont think lying is wrong. people are murdered everyday. somebody robs somebody everyday. many people think there is nothing wrong with pre-marital sex. all these are against what is taught in the bible, and so to a christian, the bible is the only perfect moral code to live by. |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk::
everyone in this world has committed sins or disobedience to god's commandments. the perfect justice system punishes every infraction. yet god has given mercy to those who repent from the disobedience and follow after god. from that, god forgives and forgets, and leads one through the perils of daily life. therefore that person is said to be "saved". a man cannot save himself, no matter how virtuous he is. when finally that man B comes before god, and has all these sins, lying, cheating, stealing, whatever, and never acknowledged god at all, of course god is going to say, "depart from me, i never knew you." whilst man A, gave his life to god. |
Hmmm so let me get this straight. You lay out a system of virtuous behaviour as defined by the teachings of the bible. Despite the teachings of the bible, a man who is biblicaly virtuous with the sole exception of him not believing in God or Jesus Christ is forever damned compared to a man who is biblically wicked (yet believes in God/Jesus) and confesses his sins to a priest??? Are you insinuating that virtuous behaviour (as defined by the bible) is so intagible that the belief in God/Jesus Christ trumps every other biblical consideration??? Please tell me, why does god value the belief in HIM and his "SON" over EVERYTHING else if he is a JUST god?
And please Heinz, I'm sorry to be so blunt, but you used to be a strict christian until its fundamentalstic beliefs conflicted with desire. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But there's nothing worse than intellectual dishonesty. Because you're not deluding us ... you're deluding yourself. |
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