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Virus C sound, how is this made? (pg. 2)
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| mysticalninja |
| quote: | | I think that's some lfo working on something, can't really figure out what. filter maybe... |
You think what's some LFO working on something?
what is that? |
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| Storyteller |
| It is probably an lfo automating the filter that's what I meant, and probably the answer to one of your questions. |
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| dannib |
| lots of synths have detune and unison. Virus b,c, nord lead/rack 3 etc. It is a very simple sound to recreate, its just another detuned saw or pulse wave being faded in using the osc balance. It sounds like a nord 3 to me. |
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| mysticalninja |
nah theres no filter lfo.
dannib: Since it's so simple, you could probly whip up a recreation on a vsti quick eh? I'd like to hear anything close too it be remade, so I can know for sure if it was done by fading in a new OSC.
I doubt you'd be able to make anything close though. Same with you Storyteller. ;) |
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| dannib |
| I will post up a clip in the next couple of days when i am in the studio. I will use either a Virus b or a nord rack 3. I still dont understand why you think it is hard to recreate that sound. Its simple. |
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| mysticalninja |
I think it's hard to recreate because Vengeance-Sounds wouldnt be making fat cash selling it if it was that simple. I think more is going on at the end of that sample besides another OSC fading it. I think release is turned up a bit, and something is changing in all the osc's together, a 'widen' or 'fatness' type thing.
Well see how simple it is after we hear you'r attempt. |
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| everyMan |
| quote: | Originally posted by mysticalninja
Ive never seen a vsti with 'unison' |
hu ? how many vsti did you see?
anyway this is my try, it isn't a perfect recreation but it didn't took me long to do:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/TranceDevotion/detune.mp3 |
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| Derivative |
its not a simple saw/unison/detune sound.
listen to it.
the pitch of the sound is wavering. not only that but the rate at which it is wavering is decreasing over time.
not only that but it seems to be connected to the filter opening and closing indicating that its a 2 or 3 oscillator sound running through split filters or that one of the assign slots is setting the filter cutoff as the source which modulates the rate at which the oscillator tuning is wavering. i could be wrong though - im listening on laptop speakers. but theres defintely a source/destination/modwheel function in the mod matrix and the LFO is definitely modulating the pitch.
also, listen to the attack transient of the sound - its a plucking sound and you dont get those on the virus from scratch. why? because the filter envelopes are all linear slopes by default. you have to change them in the mod matrix.
to the OP - my recommendation first is to read howard scarr's tutorial on programming virus sounds. its free on the access website. theres no LFO for the filter on a virus c? read the manual - there is. LFO 2 can control both filters. also, this sound is really jp'ish to my ears. id be surprised if this was made with a virus c. the virus saw wave doesnt sound anywhere near as bright as that.
second try this step by step. this may result in a sound that is not exactly like the one in the example, i am without my virus b for the next week or so since im in ireland at the moment and im moving all my stuff over here. however, it should get you a damn sight closer than the usual unison/detune reply.
1) first thing to do is to create a pluck like sound. to do so start on oscillators and set oscillator 1 to saw. for the time being dont mix in oscillator 2. the first thing is to sketch a rough shape of the sound on the envelopes. on the volume envelopes have 0 attack, short decay, 0 sustain and alot of release. i would try 65+. on the first filter, leave it fully open, set to series 4 and have resonance on 0 for the time being. we can adjust this later.
2) on the filter envelope we want a little attack transient for a nice pluck sound. if you program a virus from scratch quite a bit (and read howard scarr's tutorials) you will notice that the volume over time slope on the virus envelopes is by default linear. you dont want that. so increase the filter envelope slightly. try 12 to 32 but dont make it too much. at this stage it wont sound like a pluck. dont worry, we just need a little attack to work with
3) go to the mod matrix. on my virus b i have 3 assign slots. i think there are 6 on the virus c. make sure all of them are clear and all effects are off. find the first contrl parameter and set it to 'recursively modulate' the filter envelope. recursive modulation is basically modulating a parameter that is modulating something else. set assign 1 destination to filtenv, then set that to attack. modulating the filter envelope positively will change the linear attack slope and make it more concave. modulating it negatively will make it more convex. you want to make it more concave. so change this parameter to +16 or more. you need to do this according to taste or to the reference sound. i dont have my virus with me unfortunately :(
4) mix in oscillator 2 and set osc balance in the middle. then turn on oscillator 3 and mix it in at volume level 64. detune oscillator 2 alot: 80+ at least. then set unison to x3 or x4. panspread on max and unison detune pretty high. try 127 (max) or decrease if its too brash. you want alot though.
5) the pitch of the sound wavers so LFO 1 is modulating the pitch of both oscillators along a triangle wave. its doing it fairly fast too. so go to the LFO, set the destination to oscillators 1 + 2, in the LFO sub menu, set lfo 1 to modulate the pitch of osc 1 positively. try +32. whatever you do, set osc 2 to do the same but negatively (in this case, -32). this will result in the pitch of the sound wavering, as a guitarist will do by vibrato'ing a note. set the LFO rate fairly fast - 1/1, 2/1 or 4/1. experiment and see what you get.
6) something is probably modulating the LFO (which is already modulating the pitch). because the rate at which the pitch of the sound wavers slows down after 5 seconds on the audioclip, then it speeds up again later. i think its connected to the filter opening but i cant be sure (hence why you may need to make a split filtered version of this patch). but i dont hear a pattern in its rate of change. therefore, my best guess is that its set to the modwheel (you need to set it up in the mod matrix).
7) to add some depth to the sound add a touch of chorus, short chorus delay, and lowish chorus depth. not too much though. dont bother with the verb/delay on the virus. delay time is too short and you cant have delay + verb. use your own softy verbs and delays - SIR is better than the virus reverb anyway and its free. add those to taste.
8) add a touch of filter resonance (less than 20) just to make sweeping the filter a little more pronounced.
9) to change the rate at which the LFO wavers pitch, go into the mod matrix and go to assign 2. set the assign to mod. then set the source as the filtcutoff and the destination as LFO 1, osc 1 + 2. you will have to experiment here since im a bit vague on what will happen but using the mod wheel will open/close the filter and as it does so will change the rate at which the pitch of the oscillators waver.
10) you may need to recursively modulate the volume envelope attack anddecay to get the pluck right. without my virus or my computer with me i cant follow it through step by step.
11) towards the end of the sample, it sounds really supersawish and its as if its a jp8000 and the supersaw oscillator is mixed in all the way with the detune up pretty hard. im not sure how to make that on my virus unfortunately. i guess you could use a spare mod matrix slot and set the filter cutoff as the source which modulates osc detune as well as osc tuning. that should get you closer to the mark but that sounds really jp'ish and ive never been able to make a virus sound like a jp.
lastly, im amazed that so few people have not noticed the level of detail in this sound, instead opting for the get out clause, i dont know what im talking about, fob off bull answer. theres loads of stuff going on. pretty much anyone can take a saw wave sound and add unison to it, then detune it. it also sounds like if thats all you do to it. listen to how many parts of that sound are moving and the rate at which that movement changes and it actually sounds pretty complicated.
when i get all my gear over to ireland ill have a go at building this sound cuz its given me some really nice ideas on a split filter supersaw and i want to tinker real baaaad. |
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| everyMan |
In fact, if you read the first post, the guy wanted to know about the detune effect. Because it is definatly detuning.
Of course there is lfo modulating pitch, my patch have some, it would sounds ugly without.
There also is some phaser assigned seperatly to the delay and the dry sound.
I would like what you can get out of the virus. |
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| Derivative |
i guess, but he wanted to know how the sound was made. and he stuck virus c sound at the start. to be honest, it sounds like it was made on a jp8000 cuz of the supersaw detune type thing at the end.
im just trying to logically get to that sound from scratch using a virus - which in my experience cannot really get that jp type sound. either way, you wont get very close to that detune sound by turning the detune on the virus c up to 127. doesnt work like that. |
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| mef |
| Hey dude! Havent seen ya for a while. How was your summer? :D |
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| mysticalninja |
Wow man, thanks. I'd say you just effectively owned dannib and storyteller. I got this post in my favorite's, I can't wait too get my TI and try out your instructions. After reading all that I got too the end and was disapointed to read you dont know how he did that last second of the clip! See if you can figure it out when you get too play with your virus, i'm even more curious about it since you aren't sure how it's done, and your really smart lol. Oh and I didn't mean there's no filter LFO on virus C, I ment in that sound.
| quote: | Originally posted by everyMan
hu ? how many vsti did you see?
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Vanguard, Z3ta, Albino2, Triangle2, AR bassline, v-station, absynth, atmosphere, superwave, and many crappy ones not worth mentioning. is there any other good ones im forgeting?
btw you got the keys right on, but the sound is pretty far off. especially the end. and I hear the phaser on your example, but I dont hear a phaser at all in my clip. |
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