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yom kipur (pg. 6)
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| Psy-T |
| quote: | Originally posted by TranceGiant
I think in a plurilaristic democracy as in Israel speaking out your thoughts is no problem. If you're relaly concerned about your individual freedom start a campaign or whatever. No one will stop you, and if you find enough supporters you might reolutionize Israely Yom Kippur habits.
As I highlighted by writing "of a certain time", a consensus is something dynamic with the option for change. Just a few centuries ago it was general consensus that women should stay at home and cook. |
theoretically, if i were to start some kind of revolution, i'd still use every available source prior for discussion on my ideas to perfect them, but because i dont plan to stay here, i'm not planning to waste time & energy on it. this thread is here for a debate, i want to know who disagrees with me and why, but still, very few of the replies have answered that. :( |
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| Psy-T |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Well, if your standards are the same as those of most of the society, then yes, they can live by your standards. But if their standards were the same as yours, they wouldn't celbrate yom kipur in the first place. Since they obviously do, as most israelis on this board, I'd say the majority is not really with you and therefore you won't be able to change that.
Gee, I've never seen a person complain about a country because they have a national holiday. Most people like holidays because they can slack off that day. |
that doesnt answer the question at all tito :p
what the question was - why can't this society live by my standards?
what it was not - why isn't this society living by my standards?
and quickly about holidays - they work better when you can spend them any way you like, that's probably one of the reasons fulltime-non-minimum-wage jobs give you days off. ;) |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
i want to know who disagrees with me and why, but still, very few of the replies have answered that. :( |
i agree 100%
if youre not given the freedom to be tested youre not really being faithful are you?
and,
ideas should never be accepted and adhered to for no reason outside religious doctrine. common sense and personal freedoms are ultimately more important.
i mean, look at christmas as a wonderful example:
it gives most people in celebrating nations a day off
if you *have* to work at least youre (probably) getting paid a bit more.
its a perfect opportunity to catch up with friends or family.
a bunch of good reasons (imo) to maintain what was a religious holiday. what the day means is less important than what it achieves imo. if its preventing you from going for a drive in the sun and listening to some tunes whenever you like, then i really do think thats absurd. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
what the question was - why can't this society live by my standards?
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Because your standards suck. Society wants to live by its standards: It wants to not have to listen to little brats like you whine and complain and play there loud annoying music and hear cars racing down the street. They instead like to hear the joyful shouts of children playing on the street and the solemn breaks of silence.
As for the "government" controls all your temptation. I don't know what bullocks you are talking about. There is enough temptation on Yom Kipur - if you've never broken a fast then well congrats, because I know I and many others certainly have.
I don't know, personally when I was younger it bothered me a lot more that you couldn't be "loud" between 2-4pm. As that was the nap time. And if you played loud music, playing sport, or doing anything loud, neighbors would complain and you'd have to stop.
Mind you I doubt there was a law enforcing this "quiet time", but it was/(is?) a very strong norm in Israel. |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Gee, I've never seen a person complain about a country because they have a national holiday. |
:haha: |
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| Psy-T |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Because your standards suck. Society wants to live by its standards: |
society wants to live by its own standards?
not according to evidence, otherwise we'd have a hell of a lot more days in the year where one can't listen to music/drive around/etc.
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
It wants to not have to listen to little brats like you whine and complain |
question: what have i done that constitutes whining and complaining in a way that disturbs the society of israel?
answer: absolutely nothing, the part of israel that reads TA not to mention the PDD forum specifically is so minor there's no point to consider it, and the PDD is the only place in which i started this discussion.
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
and play there loud annoying music and hear cars racing down the street. They instead like to hear the joyful shouts of children playing on the street and the solemn breaks of silence. |
again, if this is what society wants, then why only 1 day of the year?
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
As for the "government" controls all your temptation. I don't know what bullocks you are talking about. There is enough temptation on Yom Kipur - if you've never broken a fast then well congrats, because I know I and many others certainly have. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Mind you I doubt there was a law enforcing this "quiet time", but it was/(is?) a very strong norm in Israel. |
imagaine these two scenarios, in both, you are playing very loud music in your home, one of them takes place on a normal day of the year. the other takes place on yom kipur. now imagine that in both scenarios you're being sued for public disturbance. in which scenario is it more probable you'll be found guilty? in which scenario will the sentence be harsher?
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
I don't know, personally when I was younger it bothered me a lot more that you couldn't be "loud" between 2-4pm. As that was the nap time. And if you played loud music, playing sport, or doing anything loud, neighbors would complain and you'd have to stop. |
in naptime, though in these days it's more directly about late night than it is about the afternoon, at least there's a good reason for it! |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
society wants to live by its own standards?
not according to evidence, otherwise we'd have a hell of a lot more days in the year where one can't listen to music/drive around/etc. |
Just because it wants one day does not mean it wants any. There is such thing as too much of a good thing.
Thats why eating Matzha on passover is always so good, because its the only time of year you eat it.
| quote: |
question: what have i done that constitutes whining and complaining in a way that disturbs the society of israel?
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You've irritated me and a few others. Thats enough ;):disbelief
| quote: |
imagaine these two scenarios, in both, you are playing very loud music in your home, one of them takes place on a normal day of the year. the other takes place on yom kipur. now imagine that in both scenarios you're being sued for public disturbance. in which scenario is it more probable you'll be found guilty? in which scenario will the sentence be harsher? |
Since this is not a criminal charge and you are not infront of a jury but a judge, I'd say that they are both very equal. Afterall for a neighbor to sue you for public distrubance on a normal day for playing very loud music must mean you were playing very loud music.
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in naptime, though in these days it's more directly about late night than it is about the afternoon, at least there's a good reason for it! |
There you have it. Yom Kipur is like the night.
Why are things closed at night? How come none of the shops you want to go to at night are ever open? How come no buses run at night? How come you can't listen to music late at night? How come there is never anything (interesting) to see on the TV late at night?
And worst is you have a night every day of the year:eek: :eek:
:rolleyes: |
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| Psy-T |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
There you have it. Yom Kipur is like the night.
Why are things closed at night? How come none of the shops you want to go to at night are ever open? How come no buses run at night? How come you can't listen to music late at night? How come there is never anything (interesting) to see on the TV late at night?
And worst is you have a night every day of the year:eek: :eek:
:rolleyes: |
things are closed at night because people can't survive without sleep, and most of them are asleep at night, so keeping most kinds of buisnesses open would be counterproductive.
a lot, if not most of the shops i want to go to are open at night.
buses do run at night, at a much lower frequency, for practical reasons.
i can't listen to music late at night because people are sleeping and i'd be waking them up.
i enjoy night time television a bit more than day time television anyways, and on a lot of the channels its basically re runs of what was playing earlier that day. and again the reasons for it are purely practical.
to sum up, everything has a practical reason to be closed or different at night, in contrast to the day of atonement. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Don't like it move to America and complain why things are closed on Christmas.:rolleyes: |
Cos everyone has a day off!! Unless you are British and work in a pub then you have a busy busy day!!
Just to let you know, I had a slice of apple dipped in honey to 'celebrate' Yom Kippur!!! |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Cos everyone has a day off!! Unless you are British and work in a pub then you have a busy busy day!! |
Umm ok...
| quote: |
Just to let you know, I had a slice of apple dipped in honey to 'celebrate' Yom Kippur!!! |
Actually dipping an apple in honey is done to celebrate the Jewish New Year (Rosh Hashana)... |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Umm ok...
Actually dipping an apple in honey is done to celebrate the Jewish New Year (Rosh Hashana)... |
Yea so maybe I just checked my email and maybe it was for Rosh HaShana but the woman who brought the apples in is annoying (in one of those nicey too nicey kind of ways, esp for a monday mornin!)and she mentioned Yom Kippur at the end and I dont give two s about what day in the Jewish calander it was all I care is I got a free slice of apple!! |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Don't like it move to America and complain why things are closed on Christmas.:rolleyes: |
its kosher eat it :p |
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