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Liberal govt falls (pg. 2)
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| DigiNut |
I'm willing to entertain the possibility that Harper has been a weak party leader and as a result might prove to be a weak country leader. I'm not saying I believe that to be a causal connection, but at least it's a topic for debate.
However - trust? You don't trust Harper? That seems like a lot of baloney to me in light of the CRTC scandal, Somalia inquiry, Tainted Blood scandal, Shawinigate, Gun Registry, HRDC scandal, pepper spray fiasco, Shawinigate, AdScam, and evidence of manipulation of the Supreme Court. It just never ends with the Liberals.
And I know what some of you are going to say - sure, there was corruption but that was Chretien's government, this is Martin's government. They're the same party, guys - aside from AdScam, most of the crime wasn't committed directly by Chretien anyway. It's a tradition that runs very deep in that organization.
Besides, even IF we are to assume that Martin was never directly involved in ANY of those scandals, he WAS finance minister during ALL of them! Wasn't his responsibility as finance minister to ensure that government money went to the right places? If he was so innocently incompetent as finance minister that he literally allowed a new scandal to occur every year, how can we possibly trust him to be competent enough to run the country? The answer is - we can't, we tried that and ended up with AdScam as a result. When CEOs of large corporations allow this kind of nonsense to happen, whether or not they're directly involved, they end up crucified by the media and thrown in jail (or at least have their corporations dissolved and their assets confiscated).
Harper, to my knowledge, hasn't done anything to indicate he's not trustworthy. Yes I know, all politicians are liars and cheats, blah blah blah... but over the years he's had a clear mandate and I believe he intends to stick to it, even if he is a little limp-wristed when it comes to campaigning. |
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| Wyndham |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I'm willing to entertain the possibility that Harper has been a weak party leader and as a result might prove to be a weak country leader. I'm not saying I believe that to be a causal connection, but at least it's a topic for debate.
However - trust? You don't trust Harper? That seems like a lot of baloney to me in light of the CRTC scandal, Somalia inquiry, Tainted Blood scandal, Shawinigate, Gun Registry, HRDC scandal, pepper spray fiasco, Shawinigate, AdScam, and evidence of manipulation of the Supreme Court. It just never ends with the Liberals.
And I know what some of you are going to say - sure, there was corruption but that was Chretien's government, this is Martin's government. They're the same party, guys - aside from AdScam, most of the crime wasn't committed directly by Chretien anyway. It's a tradition that runs very deep in that organization.
Besides, even IF we are to assume that Martin was never directly involved in ANY of those scandals, he WAS finance minister during ALL of them! Wasn't his responsibility as finance minister to ensure that government money went to the right places? If he was so innocently incompetent as finance minister that he literally allowed a new scandal to occur every year, how can we possibly trust him to be competent enough to run the country? The answer is - we can't, we tried that and ended up with AdScam as a result. When CEOs of large corporations allow this kind of nonsense to happen, whether or not they're directly involved, they end up crucified by the media and thrown in jail (or at least have their corporations dissolved and their assets confiscated).
Harper, to my knowledge, hasn't done anything to indicate he's not trustworthy. Yes I know, all politicians are liars and cheats, blah blah blah... but over the years he's had a clear mandate and I believe he intends to stick to it, even if he is a little limp-wristed when it comes to campaigning. |
good post |
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| infinity HiGH |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Besides, even IF we are to assume that Martin was never directly involved in ANY of those scandals, he WAS finance minister during ALL of them! Wasn't his responsibility as finance minister to ensure that government money went to the right places? If he was so innocently incompetent as finance minister that he literally allowed a new scandal to occur every year, how can we possibly trust him to be competent enough to run the country? |
E.O.D |
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| EvilTree |
As of right now, I think I'm going to vote Liberal.(Makes me want to punch myself in the balls for saying that)
TBH Harper haven't convinced me that he's a good leader, or at least show himself capable of leading.
He's got 2 month to convince me otherwise because I really, really wanna vote Tory. But right now, Martin's the lesser of 2 evils. (Esp. on foreign and defence policy) |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
TBH Harper haven't convinced me that he's a good leader, or at least show himself capable of leading. |
Again this excuse. How has Martin convinced you that HE's a good leader, or capable of leading? As far as I can see, he's done plenty to show the exact opposite.
And what, pray tell, is Martin's foreign defense policy? I haven't seen him spend a dime on our military or national security so far. |
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| infinity HiGH |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
But right now, Martin's the lesser of 2 evils. |
How so? Martin's government has stolen from us time and time again...what have the Conservatives actually done?
and why are you so concerned with "foreign policy"? This country needs to start worrying about it's "local policies" before taking care of the rest of the world (even though it's not exactly capable of doing that) |
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| Wyndham |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Again this excuse. How has Martin convinced you that HE's a good leader, or capable of leading? As far as I can see, he's done plenty to show the exact opposite.
And what, pray tell, is Martin's foreign defense policy? I haven't seen him spend a dime on our military or national security so far. |
exactly.... ok people think harpers not gonna be a good leader, ok but please tell us how martin has already proved himself a good leader and deserves your vote???? |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by infinity HiGH
This country needs to start worrying about it's "local policies" before taking care of the rest of the world (even though it's not exactly capable of doing that) |
Also a very good point.
Due to our current economic and military situation, Canada is not even capable of having a serious foreign policy, so who really cares what Martin has in mind for that?
Once we start paying off our debt and cut government spending in half, then we can think about a foreign policy. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by Wyndham
exactly.... ok people think harpers not gonna be a good leader, ok but please tell us how martin has already proved himself a good leader and deserves your vote???? |
Lets be honest here...neither man has had a chance to show if they are a good leader....even though the Liberals won the last election it was a minority government so in all honesty Martin's hands were tied.
The conservatives haven't had a chance to show anything in 12 years. It is easy to say "I would do this or that" when you have no chance of doing it. It is also easy to take anything the government does and spin it around to make them look bad.
I haven't decided who I am going to vote for...as I have done in every election I will listen to all parties, review their platforms and make an educated decision on what is best for me.
In a way I hope harper wins and all you liberal bashers will turn around and start bashing the conservatives because once again the wool will be pulled over your eyes. |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Again this excuse. How has Martin convinced you that HE's a good leader, or capable of leading? As far as I can see, he's done plenty to show the exact opposite.
And what, pray tell, is Martin's foreign defense policy? I haven't seen him spend a dime on our military or national security so far. |
Martin appointed Graham as MoD. He's appointed Gen Hillier as CDS. I can definitely tell you that morale is at its highest in Canadian Armed Forces right now. Hillier's bringing changes to Canadian military and even most cynical of soldiers are positive that things are turning around, after Cretin's cut up of CAF.
Martin and Graham so have have been very supportive of the military in general. Canada has a plan and willing to stick to that commitment. (Afghanistan) When Hillier wanted that accelerated equipment procurement plan, Canadian defence lobbyists went nuts because they thought they aren't going to get piece of the pie. The whole plan is on hold, but the plan to get 16 transport plane which badly needs replacement is still in effect.
Hillier is also on the books calling for more robust Canadian military involvement and Martin and Graham have both stuck to that, despite call for 'clarification' by peaceniks.
Conservatives on the other hand, haven't shown any plan or policy of sorts when it comes to foreign and defence.
Martin is foremost a politician hampered by trying to keep his govt alive so I also think he haven't been able to show much of what he is capable of.
I just fail to see a better alternate in the Tories. But like I said, I'm willing to give Harper a chance to change my mind.
As of right now, I'd be voting for the lesser evil. (IMO)
PS: I can't believe I'm defending the Liberals. |
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| infinity HiGH |
| Plus, let's not forget that anyone who votes Liberal is a homosexual |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by infinity HiGH
Plus, let's not forget that anyone who votes Liberal is a homosexual |
Well the Liberals are gonna win for sure....no sense in holding an election now. |
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