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Liberal govt falls (pg. 4)
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| Euphorica |
does anyone remember the lasttime the conservatives lead this country...
Not to mention being in cahoots with the bloc.
Ill pass thanks.
and Layton can find a tree. |
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| Spam |
Does anyone remember that the Conservatives aren't the same party as the Progressive Conservatives... in fact, the modern-day Conservatives are more akin to the Reform Party than the PC.
Besides, how come when the PC screwed up, the electorat outed them, now that it's the Liberals people all say, "Oh, but remember the Mulroney Conservatives? Thanks but no thanks, I'm kinda getting used to taking it up this hole anyway." |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Euphorica
does anyone remember the lasttime the conservatives lead this country...
Not to mention being in cahoots with the bloc.
Ill pass thanks.
and Layton can find a tree. |
The PCs screwed up large and they paid at the ballot box and eventually their party folded because of it. Id expect no less with this corrupt liberal govt as well. |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
no...that is NOT automatically the GG's duty. I believe your not properly applying that precedent, but correct me if I'm wrong:
AFTER an election, the Governor-General could support an outgoing gov't (e.g. Martin's Liberals) in the event of an opposition (Conservative) minority win, *if* the outgoing gov't gained the confidence of the house (i.e. Liberals would have to arrange a deal with the NDP and/or Bloq to form a majority gov't, which could in theory happen if the NDP and/or Bloq didn't want Harper to become PM).
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i.e. the GG does not have the power to simply "help the Liberals".
The Liberals would 1. have to lose the election with another party winning with only a minority, and 2. broker a deal with another party/parties to form a majority gov't in order to approach the GG to keep them in power. |
By "win" I assume you mean "have the most MPs elected" - in other words, a plurality.
Orko's question relates to what would happen if there's another Lieberal plurality after the election, and then a subsequent no-confidence vote. In that case, the GG must try to form another government with the other MPs, including Harper and the CPC and/or the NDP, etc. - whatever combination could command the confidence (majority) of the House.
The interesting thing here is: we technically don't need an election. Harper, with NDP and Bloc support, could be PM TODAY. The GG need not dissolve Parliament. The problem, of course, is that those three parties have very different policies and *probably* couldn't form a stable government. Where the GG could cause trouble is calling an election instead of recognizing Harper as PM, based on her own political affiliations.
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Most likely the next Parliament will look like this:
CPC: 113
Fibs: 109
Bloc: 61
NDP: 25
Fibs + NDP < 155
CPC + NDP < 155
Unless the CPC and Fibs form a "Grand Coalition" like the one just created in Germany, the Bloc will have the balance of power.
All the more reason to reform the federation (inc. getting rid of Liberal/NDP centralist policies), which would reduce separatism and the power of the Bloc. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
The PCs screwed up large and they paid at the ballot box and eventually their party folded because of it. Id expect no less with this corrupt liberal govt as well. |
I recommend that you prepare to receive which you least expect.
My prediction is a Liberal minority with low voter turn out.
Whether there be another Liberal minority or a Conservative minority I see this election as being necessary in order to create a better political environment. Should the Liberals win the Conservatives will most certainly oust Harper and elect a new leader. The result of this will be an opportunity for the Conservatives to elect someone that is credible east of MB thus making them a viable alternative to the Liberals. Should the Conservatives win the Liberals will have an opportunity to purge the party and refresh their public persona thus making them a more palletable party and dispelling the associations to the former arrogant, scandelous Chretien governments. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| Shadow..... if you want a very accurate prediction for the next parliment pay attention to Dr. Barry Kay (Wilfrid Laurier University). He's an expert at predicting elections. Normally he's accurate to within 3 seats for Canada. I recall one US general election where he called all but 1 seat two months before the election. I have no idea what he is predicting this time around, however, it's worth a look. |
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| Tordan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Should the Conservatives win the Liberals will have an opportunity to purge the party and refresh their public persona thus making them a more palletable party and dispelling the associations to the former arrogant, scandelous Chretien governments. |
It's too bad this won't happen before the coming elections. I would so love to see the old Chretien era cronies leave the party. |
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| simms327 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
he is a smimey little bastard isnt he?
But i have to admit, as much as i think the NDP is a joke, they do serve a purpose as to round out the political spectrum. I say keep em. Although if they ever do form a government im emptying my canadian bank accounts and making a run for the border. |
No kidding, they EFFED BC over big time. Ferry scandal... |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tordan
It's too bad this won't happen before the coming elections. I would so love to see the old Chretien era cronies leave the party. |
The only way it will happen is for the Lieberals to be POUNDED at the ballot box. Otherwise there's no incentive for them to change anything.
Also, it's not enough merely for Martin to resign and have a new leader elected. There has to be wholesale change in how the Liberal Party operates. (I would argue that Elections Canada should de-register the Party because it's a criminal organization under the Criminal Code, and that a New Liberal Party should be formed. The New Liberals would be a clean party that small-l liberals could actually support in good conscious.)
We need to end brokerage politics in this country (within *all* parties, not just the Liberals). |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
In a way I hope harper wins and all you liberal bashers will turn around and start bashing the conservatives because once again the wool will be pulled over your eyes. |
What makes you think that?
I'm going to kill two birds with one stone here, and respond to this assertion as well as the idiotic comment I always hear spouted, "Look what happened the last time we elected the Conservatives!"
Mulroney was no angel. Nobody is saying that. I've got no problem criticizing a Conservative government IF they up. However, Mulroney was guilty of a hell of a lot less than what he was accused of - a lot of that was mudslinging by the LPC that the good ole' CBC blew way out of proportion without proper fact checking. Does no one remember that Mulroney filed a lawsuit for defamation of character AND WON? I guess not, because the CBC and the Star didn't spend a lot of time covering that. He WASN'T the greatest leader, but he *was* responsible for NAFTA, which has been the backbone of almost all the economic success we've had in the past 15 years.
People point to the Liberal "success" over the past decade but in reality they are just riding the coattails of Mulroney's policies, just as Bill Clinton did with the policies of Reagan and Bush Sr. There's always a lag between political policy and economic results - Brian Mulroney was trying to clean up the disgusting mess that Trudeau made, and anyone who is actually familiar with the policies of Trudeau (and not just "the man") will know that this was a MONUMENTAL undertaking. He was supposed to reduce taxes, repair the economy, pay down the debt, fix all the social programs AND pacify the separatists - there were a lot of incompatible objectives in his list of priorities and he simply couldn't do them all.
During Mulroney's term, the PC proved on multiple occasions that they were not above corruption. But nothing they did can even hold a candle to what we've seen from the Liberals in the past 12 years. At least, alongside the PC's flaws, they HAD a mandate and they stuck to it. They took a country that was in complete financial and political disarray and sent us on our way to economic recovery and at least moderate political stability - until about the mid-90's, when Chretien had had the opportunity to make his "mark".
I wouldn't want to see another Mulroney in power. But I'd still prefer that to another Martin or another Chretien. The Conservatives today are not the same party as the PC of Mulroney's day anyway - different leader, different government, different policies, different politics. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
We need to end brokerage politics in this country (within *all* parties, not just the Liberals). |
yet you support a brokerage party. Please recognize that Reform was a grassroots party but the Conservatives are not (as evidenced by the great distain held by the former Reformers for the new party platform). |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
yet you support a brokerage party. Please recognize that Reform was a grassroots party but the Conservatives are not (as evidenced by the great distain held by the former Reformers for the new party platform). |
I partially agree with that, which is why I mentioned that *all* parties must abandon brokerage politics. The CPC is a hybrid right now, with ideological (from the CA side) and brokerage (from the PC side) elements.
If an eastern Red Tory becomes leader (like so many would foolishly like), the Party would become completely brokerage. Again, it's not about right v. left, it's an institutional/structural issue. |
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