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Study: Mothers' Genetics Might Help Produce Gay Sons (pg. 4)
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| Lepanto |
| quote: | Originally posted by metalgearsolid
Dude you rat we you were the reason as to why I suffered so much lag...thnks:whip: |
Don't player hate just because I beat you to it :p
| quote: | Originally posted by Shamen DJ's
You have also managed to pervert Christianity every bit as much as Osama Bin Ladin has perverted Islam. |
dude bid ladin hasn't perverted much Islam it's been around for a while. and nowdays muslims pervert islam. To the common beforehand though i have tons of gay and lesbian friends i, however, feel that it's not "natural". What would be the point of homosexuality outside of a genetic (supposedly nowdays) mutation or just simply an anamoly in the genetic code? He made a good point saying that if they cannot breed then why would nature make them other than it was an accident or something? just like trannys and all that jazz. |
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| Steven Hays |
Why does every homosexual and pro-homosexual individual resort to the same excuse: "Why would we/they choose to be gay in a society that doesn't accept them and only descriminates against?"
Seriously you guys need to find a different excuse.
My arguement:
If Homosexuality was due to genetics alone then identical twins, who share nearly identical genes, should either both avoid homosexuality or both get it. In fact studies of twins are beginning to reveal the extent to which environmental factors play a significant role in whether or how homosexuality starts. There have been only a small percentage in which both twins turned out gay, very rare.
I don't buy the genetic excuse yet with all the information that has been given thus far. Personally, I didn't choose to be straight, funny, extraverted, like italian food, blah blah blah. It is who I am. Many things we do and enjoy are because of the expiences we had in the past and/or are presently entertaining. People underestimate the power of social factors in contributing to one's personality. There would be no reason for a gene to become homosexual based on there being no reproductive benefits.
I just wish people would stop blaming there genes for the way they act and quit giving excuses. Being gay is a lifestyle, not necessarily a choice for most. However, I believe manym not all, homosexuals choose to be gay because of their inconsistencies with women and failure of the man/woman relationship. I think anyone can agree there are those types of people who resort to homosexuality because they aren't successful with woman. |
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| Trancer-X |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
i, however, feel that it's not "natural". What would be the point of homosexuality outside of a genetic (supposedly nowdays) mutation or just simply an anamoly in the genetic code? He made a good point saying that if they cannot breed then why would nature make them other than it was an accident or something? |
I don't see it as natural either, but I'm apparently just a biased heterosexual who doesn't know as much as I would like to in regards to the animal kingdom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...sexual_behavior
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/..._gayanimal.html |
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| Trancer-X |
Central Park Zoo's gay penguins ignite debate
Dinitia Smith, New York Times
Saturday, February 7, 2004
New York -- Roy and Silo, two chinstrap penguins at the Central Park Zoo in Manhattan, are completely devoted to each other. For nearly six years now, they have been inseparable. They exhibit what in penguin parlance is called "ecstatic behavior": That is, they entwine their necks, they vocalize to each other, they have sex. Silo and Roy are, to anthropomorphize a bit, gay penguins.
When offered female companionship, they have adamantly refused it. And the females aren't interested in them, either.
At one time, the two seemed so desperate to incubate an egg together that they put a rock in their nest and sat on it, keeping it warm in the folds of their abdomens, said their chief keeper, Rob Gramzay. Finally, he gave them a fertile egg that needed care to hatch. Things went perfectly, and a chick, Tango, was born.
For the next 2 1/2 months they raised Tango, keeping her warm and feeding her food from their beaks until she could go out into the world on her own. Gramzay is full of praise. "They did a great job," he said.
Roy and Silo are hardly unusual. Indeed, scientists have found homosexual behavior throughout the animal world.
This growing body of science has been increasingly drawn into charged debates about homosexuality in American society, on subjects from gay marriage to sodomy laws, despite reluctance from experts in the field to extrapolate from animals to humans. Gay groups argue that if homosexual behavior occurs in animals, it is natural, and therefore the rights of homosexuals should be protected. On the other hand, some conservative religious groups have condemned the same practices in the past, calling them "animalistic."
But if homosexuality occurs among animals, does that necessarily mean it is natural for humans? And that raises a familiar question: If homosexuality is not a choice, but a result of natural forces that cannot be controlled, can it be immoral?
The open discussion of homosexual behavior in animals is relatively new.
"There has been a certain cultural shyness about admitting it," said Frans de Waal, whose 1997 book, "Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape" (University of California Press), unleashed a torrent of discussion about animal sexuality.
Bonobos, apes closely related to humans, are wildly energetic sexually. Studies show that whether observed in the wild or in captivity, nearly all are bisexual and nearly half their sexual interactions are with the same sex. Females have been observed to engage in homosexual activity almost hourly.
Before his own book, "American scientists who investigated bonobos never discussed sex at all," said de Waal, director of the Living Links Center of the Yerkes Primate Center at Emory University in Atlanta. "Or they sometimes would show two females having sex together, and would say, 'The females are very affectionate.' "
Then in 1999, Bruce Bagemihl published "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity" (St. Martin's Press), one of the first books of its kind to provide an overview of scholarly studies of same-sex behavior in animals. Bagemihl said homosexual behavior had been documented in some 450 species.
Last summer, the book was cited by the American Psychiatric Association and other groups in a "friend of the court" brief submitted to the Supreme Court in Lawrence vs. Texas, a case challenging a Texas anti-sodomy law. The court struck down the law.
In his book, Bagemihl describes homosexual activity in a broad spectrum of animals. He asserts that while same-sex behavior is sometimes found in captivity, it is actually seen more frequently in studies of animals in the wild.
Among birds, for instance, studies show that 10 to 15 percent of female western gulls in some populations in the wild are homosexual. Among mammals, male and female bottlenose dolphins frequently engage in homosexual activity, both in captivity and in the wild. Homosexuality is particularly common among young male dolphin calves. One male may protect another that is resting or healing from wounds inflicted by a predator. When one partner dies, the other may search for a new male mate.
Male and female rhesus macaques, a type of monkey, also exhibit homosexuality in captivity and in the wild. Males are affectionate to each other, touching, holding and embracing. Females smack their lips at each other and play games like hide-and-seek, peekaboo and follow the leader. And both sexes mount members of their own sex.
Some scientists say homosexual behavior in animals is not necessarily about sex. Marlene Zuk, a professor of biology at UC Riverside and author of "Sexual Selections: What We Can and Can't Learn About Sex From Animals" (University of California Press, 2002), notes that scientists have speculated that homosexuality may have an evolutionary purpose, ensuring the survival of the species. By not producing their own offspring, homosexuals may help support or nurture their relatives' young. "That is a contribution to the gene pool," she said.
Janet Mann, a professor of biology and psychology at Georgetown University who has studied same-sex behavior in dolphin calves, says their homosexuality "is about bond formation, not about being sexual for life."
She said studies show that adult male dolphins form long-term alliances, sometimes in large groups. As adults, they cooperate to entice a single female and keep other males from her. Sometimes they share the female, or they may cooperate to help one male.
"Male-male cooperation is extremely important," Mann said. The homosexual behavior of the young calves "could be practicing" for that later, crucial adult period, she added.
Scientists warn about drawing conclusions about humans. "For some people, what animals do is a yardstick of what is and isn't natural," Vasey said. "They make a leap from saying if it's natural, it's morally and ethically desirable."
But he added: "Infanticide is widespread in the animal kingdom. To jump from that to say it is desirable makes no sense. We shouldn't be using animals to craft moral and social policies for the kinds of human societies we want to live in. Animals don't take care of the elderly. I don't particularly think that should be a platform for closing down nursing homes."
What the animal studies do show, Zuk observed, is that "sexuality is a lot broader term than people want to think."
"You have this idea that the animal kingdom is strict, old-fashioned Roman Catholic," she said, "that they have sex just to procreate."
In bonobos, she noted: "you see expressions of sex outside the period when females are fertile. Suddenly, you are beginning to see that sex is not necessarily about reproduction."
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c...MNG3N4RAV41.DTL |
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| Kapedan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shamen DJ's
Some people here think that stupid rednecks like you shouldn't breed.
You have also managed to pervert Christianity every bit as much as Osama Bin Ladin has perverted Islam. |
you know, you are ing close minded man, just because he is a Republican, he HAS to be a redneck, or a racist, or in the KKK. Your telling us that we are narrow minded but yet, you are the one here that is acting like one. Grow up. |
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| Kapedan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Steven Hays
Why does every homosexual and pro-homosexual individual resort to the same excuse: "Why would we/they choose to be gay in a society that doesn't accept them and only descriminates against?"
Seriously you guys need to find a different excuse.
My arguement:
If Homosexuality was due to genetics alone then identical twins, who share nearly identical genes, should either both avoid homosexuality or both get it. In fact studies of twins are beginning to reveal the extent to which environmental factors play a significant role in whether or how homosexuality starts. There have been only a small percentage in which both twins turned out gay, very rare.
I don't buy the genetic excuse yet with all the information that has been given thus far. Personally, I didn't choose to be straight, funny, extraverted, like italian food, blah blah blah. It is who I am. Many things we do and enjoy are because of the expiences we had in the past and/or are presently entertaining. People underestimate the power of social factors in contributing to one's personality. There would be no reason for a gene to become homosexual based on there being no reproductive benefits.
I just wish people would stop blaming there genes for the way they act and quit giving excuses. Being gay is a lifestyle, not necessarily a choice for most. However, I believe manym not all, homosexuals choose to be gay because of their inconsistencies with women and failure of the man/woman relationship. I think anyone can agree there are those types of people who resort to homosexuality because they aren't successful with woman. |
Good post man. |
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| Lepanto |
this is not news to me as i've studied biology for the last 2 years. however, it is not seen as normal, more as an anomoly. Furthermore, there are animals who engage in "homosexual" behavior but still reproduce and only do it to fulfill sexual pleasures. |
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| Trancer-X |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
this is not news to me as i've studied biology for the last 2 years. however, it is not seen as normal, more as an anomoly. |
But you haven't studied Ethology?
| quote: | This finding commands attention because the bonobo shares more than 98 percent of our genetic profile, making it as close to a human as, say, a fox is to a dog. The split between the human line of ancestry and the line of the chimpanzee and the bonobo is believed to have occurred a mere eight million years ago. The subsequent divergence of the chimpanzee and the bonobo lines came much later, perhaps prompted by the chimpanzee's need to adapt to relatively open, dry habitats [see "East Side Story: The Origin of Humankind," by Yves Coppens; SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, May 1994].
(...)
Another similarity with humans is increased female sexual receptivity. The tumescent phase of the female's genitals, resulting in a pink swelling that signals willingness to mate, covers a much longer part of estrus in bonobos than in chimpanzees. Instead of a few days out of her cycle, the female bonobo is almost continuously sexually attractive and active.
Perhaps the bonobo's most typical sexual pattern, undocumented in any other primate, is genito-genital rubbing (or GG rubbing) between adult females. One female facing another clings with arms and legs to a partner that, standing on both hands and feet, lifts her off the ground. The two females then rub their genital swellings laterally together, emitting grins and squeals that probably reflect orgasmic experiences. (Laboratory experiments on stump- tailed macaques have demonstrated that women are not the only female primates capable of physiological orgasm.)
Male bonobos, too, may engage in pseudocopulation but generally perform a variation. Standing back to back, one male briefly rubs his scrotum against the buttocks of another. They also practice so-called penis-fencing, in which two males hang face to face from a branch while rubbing their erect penises together.
http://www.primatesworld.com/bonobos.html |
| quote: | | The bonobo, which has a matriarchal society (unusual amongst apes), is a fully bisexual species -- both males and females engage in heterosexual and homosexual behavior, being noted for lesbianism in particular. |
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| Trancer-X |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kapedan
Good post man. |
You mean good uneducated opinion. ;) |
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| Lepanto |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trancer-X
But you haven't studied Ethology? |
both homosexual and HETEROSEXUAL though. |
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| Trancer-X |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
both homosexual and HETEROSEXUAL though. |
Have you never heard of bisexual humans before? |
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| Lepanto |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trancer-X
Have you never heard of bisexual humans before? |
that's not the issue here, now is it? Because bisexuals aren't as big of a problem as homos are. And to top it off a bisexual will most likely breed and engages in homosexual acts for pleasure as i've previously stated. |
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