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Help me understand what happened to Trance... (pg. 12)
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| torontotrance |
| Deejays are just normal people with jobs that most of us would kill to get....playing other peoples records to massive groups of people. |
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| Spirit5 |
| quote: | Originally posted by torontotrance
Deejays are just normal people with jobs that most of us would kill to get....playing other peoples records to massive groups of people. |
Exactly... |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Numidia
Well.. what he says about Ferry Corsten killing trance is complete garbage but his scathing criticisms of mindless DJ worship is spot on if i may say so |
Most of what he said has more flaws than the Empire State Building, and is based on an incredibly simplistic, generalised world-view so he doesn't have to try very hard. Call him up and he'll act like it's a joke, despite the obvious amounts of energy he puts in. Ultimately he's a gigantic, eloquent, skillful attention whore, and all his claims to elitist, intellectual glory are nothing more than a glowing, neon "look at me!" sign we all fall for.
But yes. DJ worship sucks. |
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| isoterra |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ishkur
Yes it does.
Its purpose is to make money. |
sure it is. there i was just thinking, the trance scene is literally awash with seven-figure profits coming out of people's ears at the moment. how silly of me to overlook it initially. |
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| torontotrance |
its profit, numbnut
its all about making lots of coin....its called capitalism....welcome to the real world people |
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| isoterra |
| quote: | Originally posted by torontotrance
its profit, numbnut
its all about making lots of coin....its called capitalism....welcome to the real world people |
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| Cloud |
true
That's why most of ASOT producers produce 2+ tunes per week just for Armin to have something to spin for his radio show. |
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| Numidia |
To be honest, some of these Armin worshippers freak me out even more than the Tiesto ones. Yes, he's a good, talented dj and producer and I have a lot of respect for him but stop treating him like the Messiah.
I remember there was a video of him standing on top of the turntables doing the Jesus pose at a club. I posted "guys, don't you think that's a little over the top?"... most people's response was "So what? It's Armin he can do whatever the he wants". :nervous:
Let's just all take the worshipping down one notch okay? Not a lot of notches.. just one at the very least. please? thanks |
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| Stasis |
The situation is, of course, more complicated than either side would like to admit.
Decline theories like Ishkur's are well-worn trails. See Neil Postman's "Amusing Ourselves to Death" for an example. There will always be individuals who criticize cultural changes. Print culture decried Television culture, just as Rave culture decries Club culture today, using almost the exact same arguments -commercialism, lowest common demoninator mass marketing, lack of substance, baseless pretensions, etc. The argument that Ishkur employs is decades old.
As Ishkur admits, he started listening to "trance," in 96-98, and thus he has no first-hand experience in the rave scene of the late 1980's and early 1990's. Thus, his opinions have been formed purely from secondhand information and general nostalgia. As we all know, the danger of nostalgia is its inevitable bent towards romanticism. Thus, Ishkur's view of the classic era of trance is highly romanticized, and cannot be considered definitive.
This does not vindicate his critics in anyway, however. This is not a case of either Ishkur being 100% right or his critics being 100% right. As I said before, the situation is more complicated than either one would probably admit. |
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| Camwin |
| quote: | Originally posted by Numidia
To be honest, some of these Armin worshippers freak me out even more than the Tiesto ones. Yes, he's a good, talented dj and producer and I have a lot of respect for him but stop treating him like the Messiah.
I remember there was a video of him standing on top of the turntables doing the Jesus pose at a club. I posted "guys, don't you think that's a little over the top?"... most people's response was "So what? It's Armin he can do whatever the he wants". :nervous:
Let's just all take the worshipping down one notch okay? Not a lot of notches.. just one at the very least. please? thanks |
I doubt Armin does it to be worshipped, he would do it because of the euphoria of the crowd, the music, just the whole atmosphere of it.
And if anyone does it to be worshipped then ....go home! |
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| Zombie0915 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stasis
The situation is, of course, more complicated than either side would like to admit.
Decline theories like Ishkur's are well-worn trails. See Neil Postman's "Amusing Ourselves to Death" for an example. There will always be individuals who criticize cultural changes. Print culture decried Television culture, just as Rave culture decries Club culture today, using almost the exact same arguments -commercialism, lowest common demoninator mass marketing, lack of substance, baseless pretensions, etc. The argument that Ishkur employs is decades old.
As Ishkur admits, he started listening to "trance," in 96-98, and thus he has no first-hand experience in the rave scene of the late 1980's and early 1990's. Thus, his opinions have been formed purely from secondhand information and general nostalgia. As we all know, the danger of nostalgia is its inevitable bent towards romanticism. Thus, Ishkur's view of the classic era of trance is highly romanticized, and cannot be considered definitive.
This does not vindicate his critics in anyway, however. This is not a case of either Ishkur being 100% right or his critics being 100% right. As I said before, the situation is more complicated than either one would probably admit. |
damn, that is quite an interesting looking book, never heard of it before. I'm sure we all realize that this issue is realy complex though, it would explain why these threads get so long and why they always come up again and again. |
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| Donkeyness |
| quote: | | As Ishkur admits, he started listening to "trance," in 96-98, and thus he has no first-hand experience in the rave scene of the late 1980's and early 1990's. Thus, his opinions have been formed purely from secondhand information and general nostalgia. As we all know, the danger of nostalgia is its inevitable bent towards romanticism. Thus, Ishkur's view of the classic era of trance is highly romanticized, and cannot be considered definitive. |
Yeah, this is a useless paragraph. According to you, any opinion about the past would be less credible because of nostalgia whether one was there or not, but especially if one was there. I suppose it hadn't occured to you that people might have the ability to set nostalgia aside and look at a situation objectively.
And stop calling it "Ishkur's view". He may be the only one who has fully thought about the situation and voiced his concerns here, but there are a lot of people who think along the very same lines as he did, and some who thought along those lines even before he did. When you attribute the general opinions on 'classic trance' versus 'post-96 trance' he presents here as somehow only owned by or originating from him you're creating a situation where it's much easier to criticize Ishkur instead of criticize the arguments he makes, then pretend what he said is wrong or less valid because of it. Like you just did or like this guy does:
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
EDIT: And why even bother arguing with Ishkur? It's not as if he's ever actually took part in a meaningful debate on this subject in his life, and he's damned if he won't run away crying if you try. |
If you can't beat 'em, insult 'em and make yourself look like a fool. |
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