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Iran joins nuclear technology club (pg. 7)
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by TRANCEEEE
NOw IRAN is different ...
it won't be easy
Iran has far greater military capabilities and has greater allies
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Allies? Who? Syria? LOL
I dunno about you, but if China has to choose between US and Iran, I think China would pick US. |
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| extacy_bomb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Abercrombie
Dude, calm down, no one's arguing Iran's need for energy. Had they not disallowed UN inspectors for so long, and clearly complied with the UN in revealing their 'plans', they wouldn't be in this mess. Iran made itself guilty, by shutting out the truth from the rest of the world. They're part of the UN, yet ignore UN rules.
My Persian friends are disgusted at what's going on in Iran. It's been a crappy downhill slide of that country since the Ayattola Khomeni ed the country up (their words). It's unfortunate you were not born before the revolution to appreciate the great coutry you once had before the extremists took power, and introduced sharia law. I was, my Persian friends were. They and I remember, and that's why they left the country, loss of freedoms, loss of land, suppression of women. Speak to your Persian elders who left before the 1979 revolution, and you might get a new insight. |
Oh c'mon everybody knows that Shah was fake.
Even though there was more individuale freedom but people had less political parcipitation than now.
At shah's time the persian army was the 3rd army of the world. And if it wasn't so now there wouldn't be any Iran left after Iraq attacked us. That's one thing i really respect.
After the revolution Iran could reach to democracy ,but the Islamic leaders took over the power and screwed things up.
But still i believe on standing on ourselves than any outer help.
that's why i choose the islamic regime over shah's
I hope all these don't end up to WW3
:nervous:
that's all i am concerned of now. |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
Allies? Who? Syria? LOL |
and what Alies does the US have? Poland?:haha:
If they do get attacked Iran can easily effect Isreal vs. Palestine situation and the hezbulalah in Lebenon will start attacking Isreal.Iran can also turn Iraq into a true disaster worst then it is now and ofcourse they can shut the oil to the west and we all know that cant be good.
| quote: | | I dunno about you, but if China has to choose between US and Iran, I think China would pick US. |
mmmm I dont know about that,we'll just have to wait and see. |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by extacy_bomb
Oh c'mon everybody knows that Shah was fake.
Even though there was more individuale freedom but people had less political parcipitation than now.
At shah's time the persian army was the 3rd army of the world. And if it wasn't so now there wouldn't be any Iran left after Iraq attacked us. That's one thing i really respect.
After the revolution Iran could reach to democracy ,but the Islamic leaders took over the power and screwed things up.
But still i believe on standing on ourselves than any outer help.
that's why i choose the islamic regime over shah's
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Also alot of people seem to forget that it was the Americans that wanted shah out of power and sent khomaini to take over.
People of Iran dont want anything to do with the American government ever again.Thats why they will fight them with all they have. |
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| Xavier Moriarty |
| quote: | | People of Iran dont want anything to do with the American government ever again. |
thats how i see it. IF iran is making some nuclear weapons its not to attack israel or states. they just wanna protect themselves from from what happened to iraq, making sure nobody's gonna have balls to bomb and kill their children, steal whats theirs and force something onto them.
all them new missles, torpedoes and now this is a warning. but its not "we'll you up" kinda warning, its "IF you with us, we'll you up" warning.
thats my 2 cents |
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| extacy_bomb |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Also alot of people seem to forget that it was the Americans that wanted shah out of power and sent khomaini to take over.
People of Iran dont want anything to do with the American government ever again.Thats why they will fight them with all they have. |
period :thepirate |
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| extacy_bomb |
^^^
Even as a joke it's totally disturbing.
did you notice the picture of the tehranian girls in teh video?
I think it was one of bi2.com's hidden cam pictures.
was one of these
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by extacy_bomb
did you notice the picture of the tehranian girls in teh video?
I think it was one of bi2.com's hidden cam pictures.
was one of these |
was it?Iam not sure.Bottom line is that things arent looking good in that region.:nervous: |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shade
That may be true, however it's far from the primary reason for all of it. Israel is quite far ahead in technology (just as an example), and there are some areas that Israelies have reached which other countries haven't dreamed of touching. Israel is currently creating the next generation Intel processors for example as they're the only ones with technology capable enough. Their tanks are also the most technlogically advanced (Look up the Merkavah), and their intelligence agency is perhaps not as resourceful as the CIA, but is up there in the ranks. Israel also has quite a powerful and well trained army compared to the size of the country.
Outside of technological and militaristic issues, economically, while they might not rely on eachother (though Israel is strongly influenced by American support), the two countries have trades going on regularly, and thus creates an enhancement for both economies. Israel also stands as the States' strongest connection to the Middle East, and is probably the least threatening (though it has the capabilities), compared to other Middle Eastern countries. It also goes without saying that were the U.S. in some sort of trouble, Israel would go out of its' way to help. |
The above are all good points and very valid, however, you have a causation problem. The US has been supportive of Isreal even prior to it actually being a country. Certainly none of the reasons you have raised for the US's support of Isreal existed in the early 50s. Moreover, it is almost certain that without US support Isreal would not have acheived the technological, military and economic advantages that it presently enjoys. What you have raised is causally related to US support, however, that relationship is the inverse of what you have suggested.... The US does not support Isreal because they are the regional powerhouse, Isreal is the regional power BECAUSE of US support. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by extacy_bomb
Even if you've had some education in these cases, I believe that you are wrong.
People in Iran have no reason and no intrest to go on a war. I can tell you that more than 75% won't go on a war. But it's the crazy guvernment that makes the world think Iran is a big threat and iranian people have dangerous ideologies.
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You may very well be correct, although I doubt there are many public opinion polls to which we could look for corroboration, the people may not want to be involved in any sort of conflict. Unfortunately, what the people of Iran want means very little. We're talking about an theocracy here, the religious elite run the government and the government controls the military, which in turn controls the people. In order for there to be war only the top brass of the religious oligarchy, government and military need to be on board. The people's will to war is not important in a top down system controled by few people such as this. Moreover, in the case of a nuclear strike the only people who really need to be on board are the inner most circle amongst the elite.... so long as the men giving the orders and the men with control of the launch system are onboard that missle is airborn. |
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| Shade |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
The above are all good points and very valid, however, you have a causation problem. The US has been supportive of Isreal even prior to it actually being a country. Certainly none of the reasons you have raised for the US's support of Isreal existed in the early 50s. Moreover, it is almost certain that without US support Isreal would not have acheived the technological, military and economic advantages that it presently enjoys. What you have raised is causally related to US support, however, that relationship is the inverse of what you have suggested.... The US does not support Isreal because they are the regional powerhouse, Isreal is the regional power BECAUSE of US support. |
Israel wasn't brought where it was because of American support to begin with -- I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Large amounts of the Jewish population went to Israel because they were aiming to escape the Nazi regime in the early 40s, many were denied however because Britain still was trying to keep the area under control which consequentially was labelled Palestine (This included Jordan), though it never became an official country. In 1948 the Jews who were settled in Israel (after the Trans-Jordan area was split into two different territories, one for Arabs and one for Jews) fought for themselves and stood up in a war against the surrounding arab nations. This prompted the creation of Israel, finally settled on its own.
The States were not involved in the creation of Israel, and they succeeded in acheiving independence on their own after Britain had split the land. Perhaps they received assistance from the U.S. in later years, but they certainly were settled on their own, and did not require American aid. Israel developed as a counry on its own, and the technology that is made there frequently stays there (no involvement from The States). They certainly would have managed on their own, but the support helped, no doubt about it. To say that Israel is only where it is now BECAUSE of the States is a bit far fetched though. There's been enough funding for other countries as well as the Palestinians settled in the Gaza Strip and other such areas from the U.S. (until a few weeks ago when Hamas was granted that government and support was revoked). You may as well say that all the other countries in the area reached where they are now because of Britain and the States -- but that wouldn't be valid; and in this case, neither is your point.
Sidenote: I'm glad we're actually capable of some level of intelligible argument/discussion rather than saying "OMG LETS BOMB THEIR ASSES" or something of the sort -- props to you for that Moral Hazard :) |
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