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Iran joins nuclear technology club (pg. 8)
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shade
Israel wasn't brought where it was because of American support to begin with -- I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Large amounts of the Jewish population went to Israel because they were aiming to escape the Nazi regime in the early 40s, many were denied however because Britain still was trying to keep the area under control which consequentially was labelled Palestine (This included Jordan), though it never became an official country. In 1948 the Jews who were settled in Israel (after the Trans-Jordan area was split into two different territories, one for Arabs and one for Jews) fought for themselves and stood up in a war against the surrounding arab nations. This prompted the creation of Israel, finally settled on its own.
The States were not involved in the creation of Israel, and they succeeded in acheiving independence on their own after Britain had split the land. Perhaps they received assistance from the U.S. in later years, but they certainly were settled on their own, and did not require American aid. Israel developed as a counry on its own, and the technology that is made there frequently stays there (no involvement from The States). They certainly would have managed on their own, but the support helped, no doubt about it. To say that Israel is only where it is now BECAUSE of the States is a bit far fetched though. There's been enough funding for other countries as well as the Palestinians settled in the Gaza Strip and other such areas from the U.S. (until a few weeks ago when Hamas was granted that government and support was revoked). You may as well say that all the other countries in the area reached where they are now because of Britain and the States -- but that wouldn't be valid; and in this case, neither is your point.
Sidenote: I'm glad we're actually capable of some level of intelligible argument/discussion rather than saying "OMG LETS BOMB THEIR ASSES" or something of the sort -- props to you for that Moral Hazard :) |
I wasn't stating that the US was instrumental in the formation of Isreal, I stated the US has supported them since prior to their formation. This cannot be disputed, the US and Isreal have had friendly relations since it's begining. The US has always had a role in providing military equipment and training to Isreal as well as financial assistance in the early years. Certainly you must agree that if not for the US and UK backing Isreal Egypt would have wiped them out in the 1950s. My point is this, Isreal's current power and prosperity was possible only through favourable conditions granted to them via their strong relationship with the US. |
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| mikester69 |
| quote: | Originally posted by 7-4-7
american thought process dicates as only they think, if you own nukes then you MUST have a target in using them....the reality is that the entire rest of the world does not suffer from the same paranoia as the american admisitration does.
To own a nuke, does not indicate the desire to use them, maybe the potential, but not the desire.
america is ed, and if Isreal continues to align themselves with them then they will perish as the americans will. american society, their economy, their mentality, and now their sanity is all treading on a thin line. |
And the sad thing is that because of their sheer stupidity, our future looks VERY dim since we rely on these idiots way too much. Thats why Im not having kids lol |
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| Shade |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
I wasn't stating that the US was instrumental in the formation of Isreal, I stated the US has supported them since prior to their formation. This cannot be disputed, the US and Isreal have had friendly relations since it's begining. The US has always had a role in providing military equipment and training to Isreal as well as financial assistance in the early years. Certainly you must agree that if not for the US and UK backing Isreal Egypt would have wiped them out in the 1950s. My point is this, Isreal's current power and prosperity was possible only through favourable conditions granted to them via their strong relationship with the US. |
While I agree that they were useful in many things, I don't think you know what you're talking about with regards to the training. Israel's military training is COMPLETELY different and un-influenced by the American military. And my point with the reference to Israel's birth was that they managed on their own rather than with any aid, showing they can stand for themselves and didn't/don't require anyone. Israel might not be where they are now without U.S. support, but they definitely wouldn't be far. In my opinion, you have a very bad misconception about what the States have given Israel. |
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| Abercrombie |
| You know, this whole Iran nuke crisis would be completely avoided if the whole development operation is supervised and observed by the UN to assure the development would be for making electricity, and the supply manufactured is closely monitored to ensure it's going where it's supposed to. Work with the UN, and Iran will have their energy, and the rest of the world would worry less. |
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| mikester69 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Abercrombie
You know, this whole Iran nuke crisis would be completely avoided if the whole development operation is supervised and observed by the UN to assure the development would be for making electricity, and the supply manufactured is closely monitored to ensure it's going where it's supposed to. Work with the UN, and Iran will have their energy, and the rest of the world would worry less. |
But what about other countries that dont comply then? israel STILL denies that they have nukes while everyone knows that they do. Why doesnt the UN go after them? Iran isnt even close to being at their level yet. Like every professor tells us, these problems have to be solved from the ROOT of the cause, these "short term" preemptive fixes are not going to do anyone any good in the future. |
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| Abercrombie |
| quote: | Originally posted by mikester69
But what about other countries that dont comply then? israel STILL denies that they have nukes while everyone knows that they do. Why doesnt the UN go after them? Iran isnt even close to being at their level yet. Like every professor tells us, these problems have to be solved from the ROOT of the cause, these "short term" preemptive fixes are not going to do anyone any good in the future. |
Because other countries aren't pledging to destroy other countries, we've been through that already. It's too high a price for Iran to pay just to proove your point. |
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| jesteraver |
its a ed up world we live in.
If Iran does make a nuclear weapon and they do use it against any country. The thing they have to understand, that will destroy any more trust people have even with the kindest muslim people on this planet.
One thing I can say, if Iran does start a war. No one will win. I mean no one. |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Abercrombie
Because other countries aren't pledging to destroy other countries, we've been through that already. It's too high a price for Iran to pay just to proove your point. |
when was the last time Iran attacked another country?when was the last time Iran invaded a country?
They have no intentions of attacking anyone.The U.S however has distabilized the region and dont forget who was the first country that has used nukes in the past.
If Iran is getting nukes I say good for them.since this is all for self defence and by having nukes it will make it less likely for the U.S to attack them.They have been getting pushed around by the U.S many times and now they are saying enough is enough. |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by jesteraver
its a ed up world we live in. |
why because Iran has nukes?:rolleyes:
I think we live in a ed world with the U.S in charge and all those nukes sitting in their backyard.
| quote: | | If Iran does make a nuclear weapon and they do use it against any country. The thing they have to understand, that will destroy any more trust people have even with the kindest muslim people on this planet. |
stop listening to the media please.This is all another bush admin propaganda.They are playing the whole fear game once again and it is working unfortunatly.
| quote: | | One thing I can say, if Iran does start a war. No one will win. I mean no one. |
:rolleyes: show me some proof that Iran is going to war.and dont tell me Isreal because I guarantee you that it is all talk and they will not attack them unless they get attacked first.
Bottom line is that this is all about Isreal an they are not the innocent ones.They are the ones with nukes and they are the ones that are denying of having them. |
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| Shade |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
why because Iran has nukes?:rolleyes:
I think we live in a ed world with the U.S in charge and all those nukes sitting in their backyard.
stop listening to the media please.This is all another bush admin propaganda.They are playing the whole fear game once again and it is working unfortunatly.
:rolleyes: show me some proof that Iran is going to war.and dont tell me Isreal because I guarantee you that it is all talk and they will not attack them unless they get attacked first.
Bottom line is that this is all about Isreal an they are not the innocent ones.They are the ones with nukes and they are the ones that are denying of having them. |
It doesn't matter if it's all talk or not; the moment something of that sort has been said then a country shouldn't be granted the opportunity to even CONSIDER doing anything with the nukes. The issue at hand isn't with Israel either -- the topic of them having nukes is completely different. If you'd like I'll write things your way, "Prove to me that they have them or that they'll use them". That's just as valid as your point, perhaps moreso because no threats were made. You have to understand that whether someone means it or not, a threat like that on behalf of anyone in any developed country can potentially get the person a huge law suit/arrested etc. etc. "The bottom line" is that threats are not tolerated by international law, and Iran is no exception to it though they constantly seem to be stepping around it without any worry. |
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| spolitta |
| From what I know USA is the only country who has used nuclear atomic bomb in a real war, so what are they bitching about? Just look what’s between Afghanistan and Iraq, something I'm sure Bush and his administration (read family and friends) are interested in. |
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| Cyrus King |
| Hey guys, im Iran. I noticed in the last little while that both my neighbors have been suddenly occupied by that guy across the other side of the city. Im going to protect myself, becuase these new guys seem to REALLY love what my neighbors posses. |
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