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Leaked EU Secret Report Smacks Of Anti-Semitism (pg. 4)
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by ronk
apparently they don't want it. and besides, Israel already has peace with them, so I don't think there will be any lands exchange in the future. |
Ok, so it's not Israeli land, it's not Egyptian/Jordanian land, so who's land is it? Do you not agree that the inhabitants of a land deserve to live there? And shouldn't be forced to leave? You know, like the extremists want to do to the Jews...you wouldn't want that for the inhabitants of Gaza and West Bank would you?
| quote: | | if I wasn't clear enough, then here it is: I never said Europe distorted the history, I said the report writers did, deliberately or not. I don't hate Europe. I just don't like people who hate me and Israel. criticizing is welcomed, as long as it's done right - i.e. considering all facts, history, reasons for this to do that, etc. |
So to write any report on Israel you have to provide a detailed account of Middle Eastern history from the 1800s? Of course that's taking it to the extremes but you get my point. And ffs! You don't even know for what purpose the report was written! Only a few snippets out of it and the journalists own twisted view of the EU! |
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| ronk |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Ok, so it's not Israeli land, it's not Egyptian/Jordanian land, so who's land is it? Do you not agree that the inhabitants of a land deserve to live there? And shouldn't be forced to leave? You know, like the extremists want to do to the Jews...you wouldn't want that for the inhabitants of Gaza and West Bank would you? |
if I had the option, I'd send them back to Egypt/Jordan right after 1967 war, to be honest. but I guess today Israel has no choice, but to "give up" Gaza and parts of the West Bank.
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
So to write any report on Israel you have to provide a detailed account of Middle Eastern history from the 1800s? Of course that's taking it to the extremes but you get my point. |
no. I just said whoever wants to write a report about Israel, should consider all facts. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by ronk
if I had the option, I'd send them back to Egypt/Jordan right after 1967 war, to be honest. but I guess today Israel has no choice, but to "give up" Gaza and parts of the West Bank. |
What do you mean "send them back to Egypt/Jordan"? You mean the territory or that you'd make the people in those lands move out of them and into Egypt/Jordan?!
| quote: | | no. I just said whoever wants to write a report about Israel, should consider all facts. |
And in your opinion the EU did not in this case? |
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| ronk |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
What do you mean "send them back to Egypt/Jordan"? You mean the territory or that you'd make the people in those lands move out of them and into Egypt/Jordan?! |
I'd do the following: whoever wants to stay, stays under Israeli control (in the state of Israel, not Palestine). the rest will be transferred to Jordan/Egypt.
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
And in your opinion the EU did not in this case? |
no - regarding Jerusalem, 1967 war and the "palestinians" issue.
it's like "not telling the whole story" rather than distorting. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by ronk
I'd do the following: whoever wants to stay, stays under Israeli control (in the state of Israel, not Palestine). the rest will be transferred to Jordan/Egypt. |
So in your opinion, a good solution might be to annex the West Bank and Gaza and grant Israeli citizenship to the inhabitants of the inhabitants of those areas?
| quote: | no - regarding Jerusalem, 1967 war and the "palestinians" issue.
it's like "not telling the whole story" rather than distorting. |
Jesus! They weren't telling a "story"! They were giving their opinions on what is inflaming this conflict and what to do about it!!! And for the last time, you don't know what the report was intended for or what else it contained! You're just going by the word of some tin-pot journalist with a bee in his bonnet about the EU!!! |
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| ronk |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
So in your opinion, a good solution might be to annex the West Bank and Gaza and grant Israeli citizenship to the inhabitants of the inhabitants of those areas? |
no, I said that what I'd do in 1967 if I had the chance.
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Jesus! They weren't telling a "story"! They were giving their opinions on what is inflaming this conflict and what to do about it!!! |
so they need to know all the facts before expressing their opinions huh???!!!111??!!!!!11oneoneone1 dont you think????????????!!?!?!?!!!!???&&&&&***~~~~~~~~~@ ?
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
And for the last time, you don't know what the report was intended for or what else it contained! You're just going by the word of some tin-pot journalist with a bee in his bonnet about the EU!!! |
well you're right about that one, it might have contained more facts/info. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by ronk
no, I said that what I'd do in 1967 if I had the chance. |
And now you do not believe that Israel should annex that land and that they should leave it so that a viable Palestinian state can be created? Good
| quote: | | so they need to know all the facts before expressing their opinions huh???!!!111??!!!!!11oneoneone1 dont you think????????????!!?!?!?!!!!???&&&&&***~~~~~~~~~@ ? |
Please do not forget that you are basing your opinion that the EU "distorted the facts" on one word in that article and that was "seized" which I have stated below is a fact. Whatever the reasons were behing Israel seizing East Jerusalem, the simple fact is that before 1967 it was not under Israeli control, and afterwards, it was under Israel control because they "seized" it! Or did they not?! |
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| ronk |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
And now you do not believe that Israel should annex that land and that they should leave it so that a viable Palestinian state can be created? Good |
, George, you should stop putting words into people's mouths! I ignored it at first, but it's starting to get really annoying!
anyway I do think Israel has no choice today regarding a palestinian state. however I think all of Jerusalem should be Israel's capital (and under Israeli control).
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Please do not forget that you are basing your opinion that the EU "distorted the facts" on one word in that article and that was "seized" which I have stated below is a fact. Whatever the reasons were behing Israel seizing East Jerusalem, the simple fact is that before 1967 it was not under Israeli control, and afterwards, it was under Israel control because they "seized" it! Or did they not?! |
if you punch me, and then I punch you and break your nose, it still won't matter - fact is that I broke your nose. but why? just because I want/can? no, because you punched me first. the reasons are always important. |
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| CHRles |
Yeah if in 1967 Israel would have given people in Gaza and the West Bank the option of
a) becoming citizens of Israel
b) leaving for Egypt, Jordan, and Syria
Then the current problem might not be so deep. Just like the Arabs of east Jerusalem are Israeli citizens, the Arabs in Jaffa (right next to Tel Aviv) are Israeli citizens, the Arabs in Haifa are Isrtaeli citizens, or the Arabs in Nazareth (right next to Nazereth Elite, a pretty big Jewish Israeli city).
There are millions of Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza, but I don't know if you could call all of that territory Palestine, b/c there's a pretty big Israeli area that divides Gaza from the (much larger) West Bank. Still, something needs to be done, and these people can't just go on living in refugeee camps forever and ever. I believe if Abbas was in power right now the peace process would have been back on track, but Israel can't negotiate with Hamas since Hamas doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist.
It also can't negotaiate with the Hizbollah since their funded by Iran, who have flat out affirmed their stated goal is to wipe Israel off the map.
All this creates a lot of underlying tension, panic, and makes Israel do things it would otherwise regret doing. But this is a war, a very real war for Israel's existence.
BTW, Iran will have a VERY tough time wiping out Israel without in the process also wiping out a lot of Palestinians. For one, it can't touch Jerusalem, which is also the third holiest city in the Moslim world. It can't bomb Tel Aviv without also hitting Jaffa in the process, and the same goes for Haifa since there are some well known Arab neighborhoods in the city. It also would have a hard time nuking the coastal city of Ashkelon without also hitting Gaza in the process.
So the biggest problem is if Iran supplies nuclear weapons to terrorist organizations like the Hizbollah. These radical guerilla groups arent gonna think before they act. Just like they acted without taking into account that their actions would hurt Lebanon as a whole, the Hizbollah might do something crazy with nukes and won't really care they'll be killing many of their Arab "brothers" in the process.
So really, this is the danger the entire Middle East is facing, and the world at large. This is all part of that "little" war that Israel and the Hizbollah are fighting right now. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by ronk
, George, you should stop putting words into people's mouths! I ignored it at first, but it's starting to get really annoying!
anyway I do think Israel has no choice today regarding a palestinian state. however I think all of Jerusalem should be Israel's capital (and under Israeli control). |
Well to make it easier tell me EXACTLY you think should be done with the territories currently occupied by Israel? You've told me about East Jerusalem (why you think Israel should have control over the Arab half of the city is unknown to me tho)
| quote: | | if you punch me, and then I punch you and break your nose, it still won't matter - fact is that I broke your nose. but why? just because I want/can? no, because you punched me first. the reasons are always important. |
Well your analogy should really have been about possessions to make sense... |
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| ronk |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Well to make it easier tell me EXACTLY you think should be done with the territories currently occupied by Israel? You've told me about East Jerusalem (why you think Israel should have control over the Arab half of the city is unknown to me tho) |
today I think Gaza should be under palestinian control, and Israel should also let them have most of the West Bank (already did if I'm not mistaken).
as for eastern Jerusalem, well it's currently under Israeli control, and it's Israel's capital so I really don't see why palestinians should have it. but if you go by the "holiness" of the place - it's the most important site in Judaism (the Temple Mount, the Western Wall, Solomon's stables etc).
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Well your analogy should really have been about possessions to make sense... |
my example was to show the importance of the reasons behind one's actions. ok? |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by CHRles
Yeah if in 1967 Israel would have given people in Gaza and the West Bank the option of
a) becoming citizens of Israel
b) leaving for Egypt, Jordan, and Syria |
Well if they all chose option a) there would be no Jewish state today would there? Option b) is ethnic cleansing. So if that's all the options they had in '67 then they were pretty stupid options no?
| quote: | | Then the current problem might not be so deep. Just like the Arabs of east Jerusalem are Israeli citizens, the Arabs in Jaffa (right next to Tel Aviv) are Israeli citizens, the Arabs in Haifa are Isrtaeli citizens, or the Arabs in Nazareth (right next to Nazereth Elite, a pretty big Jewish Israeli city). |
Were talking about those Arabs not in Israel and not Israeli citizens...
| quote: | There are millions of Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza, but I don't know if you could call all of that territory Palestine, b/c there's a pretty big Israeli area that divides Gaza from the (much larger) West Bank. Still, something needs to be done, and these people can't just go on living in refugeee camps forever and ever. I believe if Abbas was in power right now the peace process would have been back on track, but Israel can't negotiate with Hamas since Hamas doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist.
It also can't negotaiate with the Hizbollah since their funded by Iran, who have flat out affirmed their stated goal is to wipe Israel off the map. |
So what is to be done with the status of the West Bank and Gaza and all those that live there?
| quote: | | So really, this is the danger the entire Middle East is facing, and the world at large. This is all part of that "little" war that Israel and the Hizbollah are fighting right now. |
Probably best not to make it any worse then right? |
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