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Review: Forever Eden @ sonic... (pg. 3)
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| sugarbaby25 |
| quote: | Originally posted by van haaster
Just curious, why would you continue to go to Fly “once or twice a week” if you find the guys have bitchy judgemental attitude, the promoters don’t try anything new, AND that you feel more comfortable in a straight club?
:conf: |
:gsmile: :haha: |
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| wjntoronto |
| quote: | Originally posted by sugarbaby25
:gsmile: :haha: |
:rolleyes: |
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| fairy godfather |
| quote: | Originally posted by van haaster
I don’t see this trend as being sad at all. Quite the opposite, I see it as being the natural evolution of things.
Exclusive gay clubs originally came into being because of intolerance. Times have changed and now gay people are finding greater acceptance in the broader community. To celebrate this new-found acceptance, the younger gay people are abandoning the exclusive gay events, like circuit parties, for clubs and dance music events that cater to mixed gay and straight crowds. Gay bars and gay night clubs are no longer as necessary as they once were and this is showing up in the number of gay establishments that are either closing down or losing attendance at a rapid rate. Exclusive gay events/clubs tend to ghettoize gay people and do nothing to advance acceptance within the larger community. Exposure and co-mingling serve to advance acceptance and mutual understanding. Not only that, but exposing more people to different musical genres should help to advance the EDM scene generally.
It is a win-win situation as I see it. |
Congrats! probably the most intelligent, well thought out statement on the direction of the gay scene that I have seen for a long time.
It is very true...these days, young gay men and women do not need to seek each other out in a ghetto environment...they are accepted more and more, right where they are! |
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| wjntoronto |
| quote: | Originally posted by fairy godfather
Congrats! probably the most intelligent, well thought out statement on the direction of the gay scene that I have seen for a long time.
It is very true...these days, young gay men and women do not need to seek each other out in a ghetto environment...they are accepted more and more, right where they are! |
Not everyone is comfortable in the straight environment. Fifty percent of my friends don't want to try straight venues. I suppose they are afraid of being harrassed. This still happens! |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by van haaster
I don’t see this trend as being sad at all. Quite the opposite, I see it as being the natural evolution of things.
Exclusive gay clubs originally came into being because of intolerance. Times have changed and now gay people are finding greater acceptance in the broader community. To celebrate this new-found acceptance, the younger gay people are abandoning the exclusive gay events, like circuit parties, for clubs and dance music events that cater to mixed gay and straight crowds. Gay bars and gay night clubs are no longer as necessary as they once were and this is showing up in the number of gay establishments that are either closing down or losing attendance at a rapid rate. Exclusive gay events/clubs tend to ghettoize gay people and do nothing to advance acceptance within the larger community. Exposure and co-mingling serve to advance acceptance and mutual understanding. Not only that, but exposing more people to different musical genres should help to advance the EDM scene generally.
It is a win-win situation as I see it. |
agreed.
sorry if I wasn't clear...I don't at all think it's sad that gays have branched out and sought out better music, better venues, mixed crowds, etc. and that tolerance has increased in mainstream scenes.
I think it's sad that the gay community hasn't itself progessed. Instead of evolving the way the general EDM scene has evolved and the way the mindset of younger gays has evolved...the gay scene has stagnated. It hasn't even remained the same, it's degenerated into a joke.
that is what's sad.
I'm beyond thrilled to see more gay guys out at Guv, Sonic, etc. |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by fairy godfather
Congrats! probably the most intelligent, well thought out statement on the direction of the gay scene that I have seen for a long time.
It is very true...these days, young gay men and women do not need to seek each other out in a ghetto environment...they are accepted more and more, right where they are! |
that's very true and part of what I meant...
the gay scene has remained that ghetto-ized environment instead of evolving into something new...
if you were 18 and gay, would you go to Fly? I wouldn't...
1. because you wouldn't need to anymore to garner acceptance, meet other gay guys, etc.
2. because it's sucks ass compared to the energy and vibe that was there even 4-5 years ago.
yes, I'm bitter, lol...some of those big parties used to be a *lot* fun. I remember Hex Hector owning Fly 4+ years ago...good times. The last time I was at Fly I wanted to go to sleep...zero energy, same old music, etc. |
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| bryans05 |
Sunday night at SONIC...I was shocked to see how packed it was...Busiest night I have seen there since opening...and I have not missed too many weeks...
The music was not great...but the crowd was worse...Whenever there would be any kind of buildup where you would normally find the "SONIC" crowd with their hands up in the air and cheering...there would be a bunch of zombies looking around wondering what was going on. Surprisingly when DJ escape came on at 5 he was good...I was expecting diva house but got something more along the style of victor calderone or stephan grondin. I was impressed.
We rarely go to FLY anymore. It is a 5 min walk from my place, so sometimes it is just easier to go there...but when we do, we always end up bored and head to sonic by 3am. I love the mixed crowds at SONIC. I really think it works. I never feel uncomfortable there...I feel more out of place at FLY at times. lol
Sunday night was not a regular night at SONIC, and perhaps people should of been warned at the door it was a gay party...especially for the few str8 couples we saw wondering what was going on in there! |
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| Jungle Fever |
| I find I feel like a piece of meat on a platter when I go to places like that (Fly, Zippers etc). I can't get away from it, and I always go dancing to dance, for the music, and this uncomfortable feeling distracts me and I don't enjoy myself. Oh and attitudes are just too much for me to handle. I enjoy mixed or straight clubs, especially if the audience is there for the music. |
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| bryans05 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jungle Fever
I find I feel like a piece of meat on a platter when I go to places like that (Fly, Zippers etc). I can't get away from it, and I always go dancing to dance, for the music, and this uncomfortable feeling distracts me and I don't enjoy myself. Oh and attitudes are just too much for me to handle. I enjoy mixed or straight clubs, especially if the audience is there for the music. |
You got it! The music! That is the reason I go out. When you go to places like Sonic, Gay or Str8, you are there for the music. That is what brings everyone together. When you go back to fly or a gay party like Eden , the music is the last thing on anyones mind, and that is why there is no vibe. |
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| sugarbaby25 |
absolutely right we go for music not to b buffet
attitude sucks |
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| kaniz |
haaster pretty much sumed things up about how I feel.
I'm 23 (24 soon), I'm gay, I'm out - and I rarely step foot into the Village. I always laugh a little bit when my straight friends tell me "Oh, gay clubs always have the better music."
The gay scene in Toronto pretty much has nothing to offer me. Bad music, bad vibe, lame clubs and snotty people? The people who tend to ONLY do the Village tend to be a bit judgemental and close minded.
I'd much rather goto Sonic on a Sat with a very friendly crowd that is mixed (and much nicer gays), then the bitter jaded queens who refuse to leave their Fly weekly ritual.
Going to Fly now, is like stepping into a time-warp. The /exact/ same people (but less of them), the exact same music, and a vibe that resembles Dawn of the Dead. |
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| van haaster |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
agreed.
sorry if I wasn't clear...I don't at all think it's sad that gays have branched out and sought out better music, better venues, mixed crowds, etc. and that tolerance has increased in mainstream scenes.
I think it's sad that the gay community hasn't itself progessed. Instead of evolving the way the general EDM scene has evolved and the way the mindset of younger gays has evolved...the gay scene has stagnated. It hasn't even remained the same, it's degenerated into a joke.
that is what's sad.
I'm beyond thrilled to see more gay guys out at Guv, Sonic, etc. |
I think what is sad is that there are people clinging to the remnants of an outdated scene clearly in the throes of decline (and I think we're in agreement on this point).
I hear what you’re saying generally and I couldn't agree more with your assertion that the scene has stagnated. But I wonder if that stagnation isn’t just evidence supporting what I’m saying about the natural direction of the scene as a direct result of greater community acceptance of gay people – this being the trend towards gay attendance at mixed events and gay people venturing into the broader EDM community generally. And I think we agree that this a positive development, despite the fact that a number of gay people continue to feel uncomfortable in a so-called straight environment. (I have my own opinions about this circumstance.)
But this raises another question: If people are abandoning the ghetto environment, then who is left to foster creative new developments within that old environment? According to what we’re observing, these people have apparently moved on. Perhaps there is a bit of circular argument here and that would be: Which came first? People abandoning the gay scene because there is nothing new or, people abandoning the gay scene because of a new-found freedom of broader acceptance? |
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