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EQing main trance lead
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| muzikislife |
Hi
I know this might sound as a strange question and theres probably tons of settings but can someone tell me roughtly where a trance lead should sit in the mix. Like i've listened to so many tracks now and theres always that sweet spot where they put their leads.
What frequencies should be cut and/or boosted.
Another really strange question, i always feel that when i make a track, the mix sounds too front yet when I listen to most artist, theres this feeling of space and the mix is sitting slightly back.
I hope you'll can help with what you guys do when producing.
Thanks in advance
PS!
please don't post a frequency chart as i've got it but it's not really helping. |
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| RivalMan |
Well, I guess the obvious answer would be: "it depends"... depends on your mix, the other sounds and what you're really after.
But to be a little bit more specific; these are some pitfalls to avoid.
* You definately wanna high pass at around 45 (or even higher) to avoid rumble.
* You could low shelf around 250 to avoid the lead conflicting with kick and bass.
* Considering it's a lead sound, I would normally place it center and narrow, but if you've got too much "stuck there", you could consider placing it center and wide (using some pseudo stereo generator or whatever).
But in general, I would recommend forgetting about frequency charts, rule of thumbs etc. and try to get the overview of your different sounds and where they are placed by using a spectrum analysis. It's a lot easier than guessing and most of the time it's a lot faster than just using your ears. Of course your ears are the final judge, but the frequency analyzer on each seperate channel is a good place to start.
And remember:
* To bring something to the front, you can turn it up, boost treble (and high mids) and make it dry.
* To put something in the back, turn it down, cut treble (or even lowpass) and make it wet.
* Use pan heavily to place your instruments on the horizontal axis.
* Use a "widener"/"narrower" to make a sound more narrow/wide on the horizontal axis.
I know it's not much, but it really is hard to be any more specific. It really does depends on the specific sound.
Regards |
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| mavve |
Its all about the compresors my friend learn how to use it and your tracks sounds 100 % better.
I promise , of course you must eq some But when i first started no one told me about compresors so i Eqd like a mad man and it sounded so flat, but whit the power of compresors your track gets some dynamic and sounds alive , remember dont overuse it =)
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=370159
listen to this and then tell me what you need help whit ill tell you how i did it ... my 2 cents =)
Edit : He made some good points but , Still I would suggest you learn how different stuff works, for an example whats a gate? a compresor , a disorter and what do they do psycological. when I want a lead to grab some attention i do this I compress it very much add some delay might do some Equing not much at all, add a gate to it and use something called Psp vintage warmer ( its a kind of disorter ) and then I use my EARS and no spectrum analyser to make all of this, Avoid using such things try using your ears, Ofcourse sometimes you must use it but try not.
- Mavve |
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| RivalMan |
| quote: | Originally posted by mavve
Its all about the compresors my friend learn how to use it and your tracks sounds 100 % better.
I promise , of course you must eq some But when i first started no one told me about compresors so i Eqd like a mad man and it sounded so flat, but whit the power of compresors your track gets some dynamic and sounds alive , remember dont overuse it =)
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Don't wanna start a neverending discussion... but I have to say I respectfully disagree with you.
Imho EQ'ing os MUCH more important than compressing. I would claim that you on synth leads can get away with very little (or even none) compression if you want to. And some top producers sometimes don't even use compression at ALL (i.e. see Bruce Swediens posts on Gearslutz - as an example. He produced Jennifer Lopez' album without any compression!)
Sometimes, however, compression might be just what the doctor ordered, but I would really try working the EQ alot before looking elsewhere.
Anyway, I guess, it's a matter of taste in the end...
Btw a compressor doesn't give a track dynamics. It does the exact opposite. An expander is what can be used to create dynamics. Sometimes the two effects can be found in the same plug or hardware.
Regards |
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| DigiNut |
It is most certainly not about the compression. Don't sniff the compression glue.
As a rule, you generally don't want a lead to "sit" in the mix at all - that's the element you want to stand out, everything else should "sit". Balancing the rest of the mix is what creates the "space" you are talking about which allows leads or vocals to be big and up-front. EQ is an exercise in compromise - you can't get everything to stand out, so you need to decide what should sit back. You're trying to cut away the parts that aren't particularly important (like the bass on a pad or a snare, for example, or the treble on a kick) in order to make room for what is.
As another rule of thumb, I tend to give leads a bit of a boost on the low-middle (around 1000 Hz), a bigger boost in the high mids (2000-4000 Hz, depending on the instrument), and a significant cut on the bottom end.
But the bottom line is that EQ isn't something you can apply to just one instrument in a mix and get good results. EQ is about balance, which means you'll often have to use it on many or most of the instruments and samples.
Of course, I can't promise you that I know -all about what I'm talking about; in the end it all comes down to your ear and your level of experience. No advice anyone ever gave me on EQing ever helped. I discovered it for myself rather suddenly, it eventually just "clicked" (still not perfect though). |
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| mavve |
| quote: | Originally posted by RivalMan
Don't wanna start a neverending discussion... but I have to say I respectfully disagree with you.
Imho EQ'ing os MUCH more important than compressing. I would claim you on synths lead could get away with very little (or even none) compression if you wanted too. And some top producers sometimes don't even use compression at ALL (i.e. see Bruce Swediens posts on Gearslutz - as an example. He produced Jennifer Lopez' album without any compression!)
Sometimes, however, compression might be just what the doctor ordered, but I would really try working the EQ alot before looking elsewhere.
Anyway, I guess, it's a matter of taste in the end...
Btw a compressor doesn't give a track dynamics. It does the exact opposite. An expander is what can be used to create dynamics. Sometimes the two effects can be found in the same plug or hardware.
Regards |
I didnt say he shouldnt Eq , I said he should, well I respect that you disagree with me producers are like fingerprints. but I would say he has tried to Eq and it still doesent fit in the track, So this is more or less a suggestion to move on to the dynamics and you might not call it mixing but I do and I think its a very big part of it. and I dont think a producer would not use a compresor when it MUST be used to be air played or mixed and mastered to a cd (if its dance music)
However thats how I do and it works like a charm if you want a spacey glued mix (known as a wall of sound) but hey Thats my 2 cents still , It was nice having a disussion about this my fellow producers c ya around.
- Mavve |
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| mysticalninja |
| quote: | | a compressor doesn't give a track dynamics |
Yes, it can. |
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| mavve |
| quote: | Originally posted by mysticalninja
Yes, it can. |
Thank you sire, Why would it be called dynamics otherwise =)
Edit:
well now you know about mixing, everyone does it their own way. |
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| RivalMan |
| quote: | Originally posted by mysticalninja
Yes, it can. |
Care to elaborate?
By definition a compressor either reduces the dynamics of a track (with the specified ratio) or it does nothing to it (if the audio is below the threshold).
I'm really not stating that to sound patronizing, and I do accept the possibility that I might be wrong on this, but I really don't think I am.
Compression might give you a feeling of more dynamics in the FULL mix if certain tracks are compressed in a certain way, but that's another point...
EDIT: Found this on Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_level_compression:
| quote: | | A compressor reduces the dynamic range of an audio signal if its amplitude exceeds a threshold. The amount of gain reduction is determined by a ratio control. For example, with a ratio of 4:1, an increase of 4 dB will be needed to increase the output signal level by 1 dB over the threshold. Contrast this with the complementary process of an expander, which reduces the dynamic range of a signal if its amplitude falls below a threshold. |
Regards |
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| mavve |
| quote: | Originally posted by RivalMan
Care to elaborate?
By definition a compressor either reduces the dynamics of a track (with the specified ratio) or it does nothing to it (if the audio is below the threshold).
I'm really not stating that to sound patronizing, and I do accept the possibility that I might be wrong on this, but I really don't think I am.
Compression might give you a feeling of more dynamics in the FULL mix if certain tracks are compressed in a certain way, but that's another point...
Regards |
they are "always" compressed in certain ways , dont get me wrong its not only about compression its about the balance rule of thumb if you want anything to grab attention stand out in the mix.... (in rough words) compress it , then Eq so it dont cut? if you just Eq it then you must bost , and when you boost levels can get uneven then you must lower it dont you ? and then its in the background , but if you compress the hell out of it and put a good ratio on it it sounds in front and not in the back. but I canot say your wrong or im right its all about how you set up the track. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by mavve
Why would it be called dynamics otherwise =) |
Because it reduces the dynamic range.
It can be used to expand the dynamic range, but that's only when it's used as an expander (duh), i.e. with a lower-than-unity ratio. It's very rare to see a compressor used in this way, and I highly doubt that's what you're talking about. |
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| mavve |
so then the track dont get dynamic?
QUOTE]and I highly doubt that's what you're talking about.[/QUOTE]
And why would you doubt that |
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