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Overproduction: what is it? (pg. 3)
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Shibby
Hm.. I think I see your problem. You seem to have issues with cause effect relationships. |
Until you show the causality that connects "we're all used to listening to three minute pop music so we focus on one sub-genre" and "trance records focus too much on the production these days" you can right off.
| quote: | | Yet, for whatever reason, in your head you are unable to piece together the data I presented you "(1)Software is readily available to anyone nowadays, thus allowing more people to make music, increasing the ratio of good and bad tunes" and "(2)Trance music today sucks cause of over-technicality". |
Increasing the ratio of good and bad tunes? Their ratio compared to what then? Do you even know what a ratio is?
And I see the logic that connects "anyone can get hold of software to produce" and "there is a deluge of producers", but I don't see anything that connects "anyone can get hold of software to produce" and "trance producers spend too much time polishing up their records". |
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| unripelemon |
| it means sometimes you gotta know when to stop producing alltogether (Gabriel and Dresden):haha: |
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| KilldaDJ |
personally i think its the inflation of tracks produced that sound rather similar...me for example.
churning out loads of tunes in a short amount of time, doing the elvis equivalent of having a one-hit wonder for then to record an album rather quickly.
im probably wrong here but i dont really care, its my opinion. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| "The last thing I do is add the drums. Too many people use drums as a piece de resistance to their music. That's dumb. Drums are an accent. That's it. You should be able to make a track and not even use drums. You should be able to have so much power that you don't need drums." - Derrick May |
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| Allied Nations |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
"The last thing I do is add the drums. Too many people use drums as a piece de resistance to their music. That's dumb. Drums are an accent. That's it. You should be able to make a track and not even use drums. You should be able to have so much power that you don't need drums." - Derrick May |
I don't agree with that, however I do see where he's coming from. |
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| unripelemon |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
"The last thing I do is add the drums. Too many people use drums as a piece de resistance to their music. That's dumb. Drums are an accent. That's it. You should be able to make a track and not even use drums. You should be able to have so much power that you don't need drums." - Derrick May |
I dont agree at all. if you are making any kind of dance music, the beat and rhythm should be the backbone not the melody or whatever. You can dance to just drums but you cant dance to a melodie or a bass line. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | | You can dance to just drums but you cant dance to a melodie or a bass line. |
Really?
People did exactly that for many hundreds of years in Europe. Rhythm can come from just melodies and bass.
I'm not sure whether I agree entirely with May, but I think he has a point. |
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| thoughtlessjex |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Really?
People did exactly that for many hundreds of years in Europe. Rhythm can come from just melodies and bass.
I'm not sure whether I agree entirely with May, but I think he has a point. |
The africans had better rhythms, and all they used were drums and their hands. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| That's not really true. African music had (and has) melodic elements as well. But you're right that it was more rhythmically complex. |
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| thoughtlessjex |
| quote: | Originally posted by ********
I don't find native african instraments all too complex take for instance the log.. but they did have interesting drum routines.. but contrary to beleif.. most the world has had interesting druming.. european drums etc.. had less time to evolve .. but if you look to the uses in battle etc.. or what latter lightly evolved to use in orchestra or otherwise... whatever.. native americans appeared to have a more 'encased' and full long drum sound (I could be mistaken though) ... while (Bharat) Indian drumming is pretty involved and goes back into the ancient millenia.. .. I tend to think that african drumming while very interesting.. their drum instraments I have been exposed to are in part perhaps lacking to a degree.. but I havn't been exposed to all african rythm instraments.. and egypt sorta is in africa.. |
The drums may not be all that interesting in themselves, but when you layer 4/4 over 6/8 over 5/4, all such that the measures take the same amount of time, things become more intriguing. This is what the Africans did on a regular basis, and it's something the Europeans rarely did. Furthermore, Europeans eschewed syncopation most of the time, while African drumming is filled to the brim with it.
Bharat is interesting as well, and provides a nice dance rhythm. I'm not saying it didn't. I'm just saying that I disagree with JiveBoJingles because historically drums have been far more instrumental (hahahaha) than melodies in creating danceable rhythms. I feel that the Europeans were only danceable because their dances were stuffy and boring. |
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| DJ Shibby |
| quote: | Originally posted by ********
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I think BT made a couple interesting tracks, his videos were interesting... I don't consider BT over produced actually only a couple tracks such as BT- Dreaming (was it a tiesto remix.. oh hold on..) but nah I don't think BT is overproduced.. BT managed to put out some music on par with pop/dance etc..
what I got from djshibby's comments originally was that "Major lables and their "packed" studios enabled.. what was otherwise relatively small studios or even a few synths dats etc.. studios tracks to go to a new level of sound, and meet industry standards for "commercial music"
BUt relatively if you look at music to the early 90's production quality for me actually tended to back track from the 60's and 70's. It was the mid 90's 92-95 that the first electronic music push ocucred on the new dance/rave, trance/techno dance.. and progressive house. The music was there before but it didn't seem to be in 'the big studios' I could be off but this is just how I saw it.. the 90's brought new technologies and old technologies were in some cases handed off.. allowing more poeple to make 'quality industry sounds..' etc.. the industry sound being pumped in the upspringing 'major dance clubs' that in some cases cattered not only top 40 but also 'dance music' although the dj mixes existed before it. I would say the prevelance changed largely with 'highly devoted dj's etc..'
with the specialization and exposures becoming more select the genres became formed and from there the production techniques had time to perfect themselves.. or atleast a lot more exposure thus more artists and more of a base to find ideas from.. the same artists in large part dominated.. and with them having years upon years to find their sound managed to do more than what others who may just be entering into production could manage, but with the odd prodigy. The big producers.. whom may not only produce trance but in some cases work on motion pictures or otherwise may have then cross bred their production techniques from what may have been a more listening oriented production rather than a dance oriented production. ALl in all some tracks appear more fine tuned as "listening, commercial or for radio play and less so club / rave or dance play.. but think of what other people use to hear with the dj .. in the 70's 60's and before. heck people use to dance to jazz.. and some still do...
but I think that what is being hit on for overproduction is sound which takes a good track idea or something that would be better to dance or listen to if so much wasn't done to it.
I happen to like AVB's music style in a number of tracks, and don't consider it over production. It is "quality production" much like a handful of Tiesto's tracks appear to be good to me. I still happen to like a wide mixture of music.. and it appears just to be a slightly different style..
The 'raw' sound.. vs. the fine tuned sound.. doesn't matter it is what is in the tracks.
I think there may just be some people that don't like the approach..
I can say something like the track Bill Gates by Komputer is overproduced... it takes an otherwise basic and sorta weird track and buffs the sound until it actually appears listenable.. but when I look at the track and take it as a work of art.. understanding that it elicits me to dance in the shape of a -W- and visualize the word windows I understand that it isn't about the not meeting my standards of a track.. but instead the idea that is attempting to be conveyed in the track.. like what is pearl girl suppose to convey? It suonds pretty good.. but without all that equing or "mic/vocal leveling reverb etc.. what would the track be... the track sounds good what does it matter.. either a track is to taste or not.. it matters not how much was done to the track universally but what was done to the track as it exists.. there are thousands of tracks I havn't really enjoyed.. some had nice sound characteristics some not.. would I call it over production on the ones that "had a good sound" but a bad structure etc..??? I'm not sure.. I don't think you can "over produce something" but i think you can take the wrong direction on a track or not meet that final feeling that is to be met.
But if I had to say something was overproduced, it would be a track that I don't really like all to much that exists.
I would perhaps say errouneously that drug enduced transience inspired people to make the sound as they heard it high.. but knowing many producers don't do drugs I couldn't say this is correct. BUt the theory that generation after generation of drug use improved the sounds people were aiming for.. theory doesn't hold perhaps.
You also may say that enviromental music changed.. big club sound small room etc.. has different reverbs and other considerations.. it ain't all headphones but the overall effect of the sound and how it transists psychoacoustically as the sound morphs environmentally over distances and atmospheres and geometrics.
Although you may also say that the sound engineers in a specific venue or otherwise make the proper considerations for room setups and the need isn't there in the tracks..
but you may also say the way in which people hear the same and thus their inspiration to recreate changes....
hearing music from behind on just infront in a small room or 100 or 1000 ft all have different feels and "sounds" |
Good post, and I think there's credence to the drug theory.
I personally know it is completely unquantifiable since everyone is different, but taking psytrance for example of the pinnacle of this phenomena, when people do certain or various drugs they seem to be able to listen to music differently, taking back new ideas and reveries back with them into sober life, where they attempt to recreate it. |
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| RapidFire |
| all in all over produced tracks > under producted tracks. ill take tunes with "no soul" over tunes with no substance any day. |
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