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Hugo...doing it again. (pg. 15)
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
Yeah, I know... all of that real life experience and you still are, after all, just a woman....:rolleyes:
ha ha ha
:clown: |
Quite. While you and Lillith are patting yourselves on the back about how your life experiences give you some kind of God given right to comment on issues as if your words should be taken as Gospel by everyone else, perhaps you'd both like to comment on the thread I started about media censorship in Venezuela? No doubt you've both read it and both use censorship of the media to prove Venezuela is a dictatorship, yet neither of you have commented on that thread? Strange |
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| Lilith |
| Yeah I know, back in the kitchen, stop out-earning Laz and shut my mouth. |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Quite. While you and Lillith are patting yourselves on the back about how your life experiences give you some kind of God given right to comment on issues as if your words should be taken as Gospel by everyone else, perhaps you'd both like to comment on the thread I started about media censorship in Venezuela? No doubt you've both read it and both use censorship of the media to prove Venezuela is a dictatorship, yet neither of you have commented on that thread? Strange |
actually, I care not if you take my words as "gospel" Jorge. I really don't, but if for once I made you look up, do research or what ever you do to get your ideas from; then my job is done. ;)
No knock against you or anyone, but one has to live inside the books and outside the class room in order to reach full enlightenment.
now I leave this thread with this...........
i smoke way tooo much 
ha ha |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
Yeah I know, back in the kitchen, stop out-earning Laz and shut my mouth. |
why you got to bring dollars in this?? huh?? man we should of never let ya women learn to read! Fock!!!! Now get in there and cook me a chicken pot pie!!
ha ha ha :D :tongue3 :tongue3 :crazy: :crazy: |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
actually, I care not if you take my words as "gospel" Jorge. I really don't, but if for once I made you look up, do research or what ever you do to get your ideas from; then my job is done. ;) |
Erm but I did do some research and came to the conclusions I have.
| quote: | | No knock against you or anyone, but one has to live inside the books and outside the class room in order to reach full enlightenment. |
Do you mean in order to comment on Venezuela I have to go to Venezuela? Have you been to Venezuela recently? |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
No doubt you've both read it and both use censorship of the media to prove Venezuela is a dictatorship, yet neither of you have commented on that thread? Strange |
I did, but you wanted hard cold facts. I help out my fellow man and give back to the community back home in Houston. Member of many charitable services that provides to many.... my main focus is on helping fellow Latinos from South of the Border.
Right now I give to the sponsoring of a Valenzuela family of 4. You know; help with school clothes, foods, rent and such. I heard from the horses mouth how this man lost his job, home, threats from the special police chavez uses and so forth; all due to being critical of Chavez. He feared for his life and his family.
but no matter, this is all in vain anyways.....
No one on this board can convince you other wise, its only you that can wake up
I read this the other day and thought about ya:
| quote: | For a long time, I’ve defended Hugo Chavez. I thought that he was fighting a worthy battle against greed and corruption, against years of foreign domination and cronyism. I thought he was trying to improve the lives of poor people, while establishing a strong economy, an independent and self-respecting nation, and a vibrant democracy.
But now, after watching events unfold in the past few months, I’m ready to admit that I was mistaken.
Like many of those who lean left, I figured that Chavez’s megalomaniacal governing qualities were a bit unnerving, but not anything serious to be worried about. In retrospect, I realize that I was willing to overlook his authoritarian tendencies because of one main thing: his avowed commitment to social justice issues and his dedication to ending poverty.
Recently, however, I’ve changed my mind in a major way. Although I have tried to remain optimistic, Chavez’s actions in the past few months clearly indicate that he is set on becoming a dictator. Perhaps a dictator dedicated to the poor, but a dictator nonetheless. The evidence is abundant (though I will just list a few of the most recent examples). In late 2006, for instance, Chavez canceled the operating license for RCTV, the second-largest tv channel in Venezuela and one of the most public forums for opposition to his regime. Was it just anti-Chavez activists who called foul to this act of censorship? Not at all. Indeed, José Miguel Vivanco, the Americas director for Human Rights Watch, referred to the incident as “clearly a case of censorship and the most grave step back in the region since [the 1990s media crackdown of Peru’s Alberto] Fujimori.”
Then, in late January of 2007, in an unbelievably bold act, Chavez passed through the Venezuelan legislature a measure that gave him the power to rule by decree. For eighteen months, he was granted the ability to make sweeping economic and social changes without the direct consent of the legislature. Most recently, as The New York Times is now reporting, Chavez has decided to unveil a plan that would get rid of presidential term limits entirely. Unfortunately, with control of all branches of government, it looks like this blatantly undemocratic effort to become ruler-for-life might actually succeed:
Willian Lara, the communications minister, said Mr. Chávez would announce the project before the National Assembly, where all 167 lawmakers support the president. Supporters of Mr. Chávez, who was re-elected last year with some 60 percent of the vote, also control the Supreme Court, the entire federal bureaucracy, public oil and infrastructure companies and every state government but two.
Meanwhile, Chavez appears to be establishing a cult of personality, not unlike other authoritarian leaders:
As Mr. Chávez, 53, settles into his ninth year in power, images of him have become impossible to avoid here. On billboards, posters and murals, he is seen hugging children, embracing old women, chanting slogans and plugging energy-saving Cuban light bulbs into sockets.
The sum of these recent developments, combined with previous measures to stack the courts and the legislature, have solidified Chavez’s rule to the point where there should no longer be any doubt about the direction in which the country is headed. Chavez is pushing for dictatorial-like powers and there seems to be little hope, at least in the near future, of re-establishing any semblance of democratic governance.
Unfortunately, many of us on the left have been silent on this issue for far too long. While we have been quick to criticize our own administration and other foreign governments (think Vladimir Putin) for undemocratic policies, there has been a tendency to overlook the authoritarian governing styles of leftist regimes like that of Venezuela. For some reason — probably because these leaders profess the dogma of economic equality and social reform — many of us on the left have defended these liberal autocrats.
But it’s time to wake up and get our priorities straight. We should not be blind to what is going on in Venezuela. We can no longer forgive Chavez’s dictatorial tendencies merely because of his avowed commitment to the country’s poor. Indeed, it is a grave mistake to overlook tyranny or authoritarianism even when it is couched in the rhetoric of liberal reform and social justice. Ultimately, while Chavez’s vision of an end to poverty and the creation of a more equitable society is an honorable and an important one, his way of achieving these goals is not. Upholding democracy is infinitely more important than any of these other aims. |
>>SOURCE<< |
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| Magnetonium |
Are some of you so naive to believe that Chavez will turn Venezuela into a paradise in just one term? :stongue: Especially with the long history of foreign [American] interference/intervention, wars, and poverty? :stongue: |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Are some of you so naive to believe that Chavez will turn Venezuela into a paradise in just one term? :stongue: Especially with the long history of foreign [American] interference/intervention, wars, and poverty? :stongue: |
I don't think anyone believes Venezuela is on its way to paradise, regardless. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
I did |
Erm no you haven't!
| quote: | I help out my fellow man and give back to the community back home in Houston. Member of many charitable services that provides to many.... my main focus is on helping fellow Latinos from South of the Border.
Right now I give to the sponsoring of a Valenzuela family of 4. You know; help with school clothes, foods, rent and such. I heard from the horses mouth how this man lost his job, home, threats from the special police chavez uses and so forth; all due to being critical of Chavez. He feared for his life and his family. |
This is more like it. This is what I was after - why did you feel the need to wait until now? The whole reason Venezuela got my interest lately is because of two threads on two boards I post on. I read the thread on Chavez's plans to lift the limit on presidential terms and the reaction it got and it struck me as odd, almost like there is a predetermined way to react when Chavez does anything. On the face of it, there is no problem whatsoever on lifting limits on presidential terms, but the media twisted it as to make it look like the actions of a dictator and those that way inclined lapped it up. So I started doing some research (limited to the internet) and found that what we are told in the West about Chavez is not strickly true. Take media censorship. You and others just tell me, without any sources that the media is censored in Venezuela. A quick search showed that this was simply not true - far from it. I then also hear about other "traditional" traits of dictatorship - authoritarian rule, police brutality etc etc.
If you watch the documentary on the other thread, you'll see that the opposition (those "oppressed" people) are actually more authoritarian than Chavez - they took over the country in a coup, shot at Chavez supporters and undertook an extensive media censorship campaign. I notice you never talk about the actions of the opposition in Venezuela!
But your experiences with Venezuelans are good. What's the story with this family you know? What has happened to them and do you have any media sources (NOT Venezuelan!!!) that suggest what has happened to this family you know are widespread throughout Venezuela?
I'm after info. My opinions so far is on what I've found out. Neither you or Lillith have really attempted to sway my opinion on what I have found out with other sources of your own to back up your opinion of Chavez. You're wrong that no-one can convince me otherwise it's just that up to now, I have seen no evidence to suggest Chavez and Venezuela are much different to a lot of countries that no-one would even consider calling a dictatorship (in fact, the freedom of the media in Venezuela is far far greater than in any other country I've seen to the extent they toppled a democratically elected government and Chavez still lets them broadcast! Remarkable really!)
Venezuela today seems to have many similarities with Chile in 1973... |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Are some of you so naive to believe that Chavez will turn Venezuela into a paradise in just one term? :stongue: Especially with the long history of foreign [American] interference/intervention, wars, and poverty? :stongue: |
Wow, great contribution, well done
FYI, no, I don't think Venezuela will turn into a "paradise", like I don't think any other country in the world can become some kind of paradise. In fact, this thread is not about Chavez'z economic policies (tho some link the two) but whether he is a dictator or not... |
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| Magnetonium |
George, can I ask you a personal question - why do you use double standards when it comes to Vladimir Putin? I mean, seriously ... its a similar situation, except with less questionable events. A lot of things you say about Chavez is the way I look at Putin. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
George, can I ask you a personal question - why do you use double standards when it comes to Vladimir Putin? I mean, seriously ... its a similar situation, except with less questionable events. A lot of things you say about Chavez is the way I look at Putin. |
Cos Putin insulted Britain?
Seriously tho, I'm not sure I did call Putin a dictator did I?
I just searched +putin +dictator/ship and nothing I wrote came up...? |
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