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Hugo...doing it again. (pg. 30)
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| Capitalizt |
| Shakka, please delete this thread. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
Shakka, please delete this thread. |
I second that motion!!!!!! |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
Shakka, please delete this thread. |
Why? |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Why? |
Cos it's driving everyone participating in it insane! |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
RCTV participated in the Coup
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Ah so what do you think the pro-government stations did and what happened to them? No doubt they were shut down too?? Or did they not "participate"?
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The media is pretty balanced according to the stats (which don't include RCTV coming back on their air)
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And it's "pretty balanced" because a dictator is actively promoting and improperly promoting a pro-government line over free speech. Yes ... that's a lot better.
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GW Bush's response to the media coup would be to have the coup leaders executed for treason, so I would say Chavez's response of letting them all off the hook incredibly lenient
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Wow. Not only do you introduce a fallacy but you accentuate it with gross hyperbole. Yes George Bush would EXECUTE JOURNALISTS!!!! Therefore Chavez is a model of leniency!!! :rolleyes: Thank you for posting the most ridiculous thing I have read today. Not only an unsubstantiated strawman but an irrelevant one as well. A godwin in modern sense. Bringing Bush into the discussion does not aid your argument against me unless you can actually use it constructively. The problem is is that A)I'm not a bush supporter and B) Even if Bush DID do exactly the same thing I'm not making an ideological hyprocritical appeal whereby I'm endorsing Chavez's behaviour among ANY other candidate. Sorry you're going to have to do better than that.
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I have no idea which parts you bolded. I think I responded twice to the post so if you want me to reply again you'll have to repeat it because I'm not going back to look
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It's all bolded in one post about 2-3 pages back. It's all in the same place that you selectively quoted me already so let me know if you can't find your way back.
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The EU's criticism is unfounded
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Ok.
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I don't justify everything Chavez has done, I just dispute most of what the media say about him, and in turn, those who believe it |
Well so far you have defended nearly EVERYTHING Chavez has done. Despite the fact that now we know you consider the EU's claims to be completely unfounded, you don't justify "everything" he has done. Can you tell us what actions Chavez has done that you think to be unjustifiable? |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
Ah so what do you think the pro-government stations did and what happened to them? No doubt they were shut down too?? Or did they not "participate"? |
Eh? Four TV stations (including RCTV) participated and helped plan the military overthrow of a democratically elected government - which part of that don't you understand? Or is that a perfectly reasonable course of action?
:conf:
| quote: | | And it's "pretty balanced" because a dictator is actively promoting and improperly promoting a pro-government line over free speech. Yes ... that's a lot better. |
Do you even know what replaced RCTV on the channel 2 frequency?
| quote: | | Wow. Not only do you introduce a fallacy but you accentuate it with gross hyperbole. Yes George Bush would EXECUTE JOURNALISTS!!!! Therefore Chavez is a model of leniency!!! :rolleyes: Thank you for posting the most ridiculous thing I have read today. Not only an unsubstantiated strawman but an irrelevant one as well. A godwin in modern sense. Bringing Bush into the discussion does not aid your argument against me unless you can actually use it constructively. The problem is is that A)I'm not a bush supporter and B) Even if Bush DID do exactly the same thing I'm not making an ideological hyprocritical appeal whereby I'm endorsing Chavez's behaviour among ANY other candidate. Sorry you're going to have to do better than that. |
Who said anything about journalists? I've said all along that the owners of the TV stations would be charged with treason in the US. You're the one inventing arguments up in your head, not me.
Tell me what would happen to someone in America that helped organise and took part in a military overthrow of the democratically elected government?
| quote: | | It's all bolded in one post about 2-3 pages back. It's all in the same place that you selectively quoted me already so let me know if you can't find your way back. |
Then post it again and tell me exactly what you want me to comment on because iirc I've replied twice to that post and have no intention of repeating myself if you're not going to tell me what you're on about
| quote: | | Well so far you have defended nearly EVERYTHING Chavez has done. Despite the fact that now we know you consider the EU's claims to be completely unfounded, you don't justify "everything" he has done. Can you tell us what actions Chavez has done that you think to be unjustifiable? |
You implied that I would justify anything Chavez has done simply because he is Chavez. That's not true by a long shot. What I have done consistently through this thread is to look for the truth behind the media fabrications - media censorship, undemocratic elections, undemocratic rule, etc etc - pretty much everything Chavez has been accused of by corporate America has been lies. He won the election fair and square - ing deal with it
Nobody answered my question:
Would any of you know where to point to Venezuela on a map if Chavez had not re-nationalised the oil industry?
This is the source of all the accusations about Chavez, nobody would care about him had he not posed a direct threat to corporate America, and your culture is so twisted that you have been conditioned to equate freedom to economic freedom (when the truth is economic freedom equates to a total loss of freedom for the vast majority). The only FACT about Chavez is that he nationalised the oil industry - nothing wrong with that whatsoever - yet in your culture that equals dictatorship |
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| George Smiley |
| Do me a favour mate, sort ya quotes out!! |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Would any of you know where to point to Venezuela on a map if Chavez had not re-nationalised the oil industry? |
uhh, no? we still can't
if your implying that we, as Americans, have only paid attention to him because of what he does with his oil then thats absurd. we can't even find Iraq on a map!
i'm almost positive LazFX would have trouble with Canada.:D |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
uhh, no? we still can't
if your implying that we, as Americans, have only paid attention to him because of what he does with his oil then thats absurd. we can't even find Iraq on a map!
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I love how some people think we are all a bunch of ignorant red necks....
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i'm almost positive LazFX would have trouble with Canada.:D |
sure do!!!! its over there -------------> or is it up there???? |
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| LazFX |
Hugo Chavez threatening to nationalize private schools that will not change to his government's new textbooks. George Orwell unavailable for comment...........
| quote: | Chavez threatens to nationalize non-compliant private schools
* Story Highlights
* Chavez: All schools must submit to the government's new educational standards
* Opponents accuse president of aiming to indoctrinate young Venezuelans
* Chavez: "Society cannot allow the private sector to do whatever it wants"
* Chavez: Capitalist ideology has destroyed "the values of children"
CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez threatened Monday to close or take over any private school that refuses to submit to the oversight of his socialist government as it develops a new curriculum and textbooks.
"Society cannot allow the private sector to do whatever it wants," said Chavez, speaking on the first day of classes.
All schools, public and private, must admit state inspectors and submit to the government's new educational system, or be closed and nationalized, with the state taking responsibility for the education of their children, Chavez said.
A new curriculum will be ready by the end of this school year, and new textbooks are being developed to help educate "the new citizen," said Chavez's brother and Education Minister Adan Chavez, who joined him in a televised ceremony at the opening of a public school in the eastern town of El Tigre.
The president's opponents accuse him of aiming to indoctrinate young Venezuelans with socialist ideology. But the education minister said the aim is to develop "critical thinking," not to impose a single way of thought.
Just what the new curriculum will include and how it will be applied to all Venezuelan schools and universities remains unclear.
"We want to create our own ideology collectively -- creative, diverse," the president said, adding that it would help develop values of "cooperation and solidarity."
All schools will be bound to "subordinate themselves to the constitution" and comply with the "new Bolivarian educational system," he said, referring to his socialist movement named after South American independence hero Simon Bolivar.
Anticipating criticism, Chavez said the state's role in regulating education is internationally accepted and it is not possible for a school administrator to insist on autonomy in countries such as Germany or the United States either.
Chavez also noted that previous Venezuelan educational systems carried their own ideology. Leafing through old grade school textbooks from the 1970s, he pointed out how they referred to Venezuela's "discovery" by Europeans.
"They taught us to admire Christopher Columbus and Superman," Chavez said, adding that education based on capitalist ideology had destroyed "the values of children."
Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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This guy is losing it.... http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/amer...eref=rss_latest
but since its not an approved news source that George likes, I am sure this is just more ignorant American press just picking on poor innocent Chavez.. ;)
we need maps.....like and so forth.. :) |
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| George Smiley |
This is a great story! Exactly what got me interested in Venezuela in the first place!
You (and CNN) don't even know what's IN the text books yet you're criticising already!!!
I don't even think you know what's in the text books of these private schools do you?
What would you say if the government of Palestine introduced new text books that forbid anti-Semitism and if private schools did not comply they would be taken over by the government!?
I really think people need to just wait until they leap in head first with their preconstructed criticisms of Chavez until the actual facts are known (for all I know he might want to brainwash kids, or the education system in Venezuela might be absolutely e and he wants to do something about it - none of us know)
You also need to bare in mind the absolute polarisation in Venezuela meaning the kids are already likely to be indoctinated by the opposition... |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | CNN:
Just what the new curriculum will include and how it will be applied to all Venezuelan schools and universities remains unclear |
:D
You couldn't make it up could you?! |
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