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Domestic airfares on upward path (pg. 2)
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| failsafe |
Loca:
Yah take your own car to B.C then. What a great use of a 2 week vacation that would be. 10 days of driving for the round trip and 4 days in the mountains. Brilliant. The prairies at night, how glorious. Don't worry it will be over in 18hrs.
How amazing would it be to have someone with their small dog sitting beside you with a serious pet allergy? I can't count the number of times someone with a small pet brought it on the flight and it wouldn't stop barking or meowing for 5hrs. The number of people angered by that policy pales in comparison to those made happy. I'm sorry your small dog can't ride with you.
AC would most likely only fly to you france, and then your connection would be with a star alliance partner. If you were in France it would be far cheaper to fly AC to toronto and then up to sudbury than it would be to fly Air France. Surely the logic of network with local feed from their own country wouldn't escape you.
You're not understanding the stage lengths here. Toronto to Edmonton is a massive distance. It's farther than London England to Moscow. Flying from London England to most of europe is far closer to Toronto Montreal, or Toronto Ottawa segments. If you look at the prices in that segment that services decent sized canadian cities you'll see prices more inline with what europeans are used to.
One last point for loca:
You get what you pay for. The highway is the 401. The plane is the nice air france A-340 you like. The airport is Toronto. How much would you pay for piece of mind?
Smnucky: I compared the two not to say that their like manners of travel. I compared them to say that they're two methods available to get you from the same spot to the same destination. I think its fair to say that the vale of air travel on a sector like that is worth far more than the increased airport taxes and security fees you'd pay ontop of the lower airfare price. Though maybe you have a passion for bus travel that would outweigh the 2 day 5hr longer trip.
All that said, I'm not trying to say Canadian Aviation is the best in the world. I'm just trying to enlighten some of those who lack some very basic understanding of how things work. Flying between two major centers that are close together is always going to be far cheaper than flying between to distant centers with marginal traffic. Comparing Toronto Montreal would be a fair comparison to comparing London, paris, london madrid, london rome etc. It's the only city pairing within canada that has the loads to bring the price down. |
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| loca |
| quote: | Originally posted by failsafe
Loca:
Yah take your own car to B.C then. What a great use of a 2 week vacation that would be. 10 days of driving for the round trip and 4 days in the mountains. Brilliant. The prairies at night, how glorious. Don't worry it will be over in 18hrs.
How amazing would it be to have someone with their small dog sitting beside you with a serious pet allergy? I can't count the number of times someone with a small pet brought it on the flight and it wouldn't stop barking or meowing for 5hrs. The number of people angered by that policy pales in comparison to those made happy. I'm sorry your small dog can't ride with you.
AC would most likely only fly to you france, and then your connection would be with a star alliance partner. If you were in France it would be far cheaper to fly AC to toronto and then up to sudbury than it would be to fly Air France. Surely the logic of network with local feed from their own country wouldn't escape you.
You're not understanding the stage lengths here. Toronto to Edmonton is a massive distance. It's farther than London England to Moscow. Flying from London England to most of europe is far closer to Toronto Montreal, or Toronto Ottawa segments. If you look at the prices in that segment that services decent sized canadian cities you'll see prices more inline with what europeans are used to.
One last point for loca:
You get what you pay for. The highway is the 401. The plane is the nice air france A-340 you like. The airport is Toronto. How much would you pay for piece of mind?
Smnucky: I compared the two not to say that their like manners of travel. I compared them to say that they're two methods available to get you from the same spot to the same destination. I think its fair to say that the vale of air travel on a sector like that is worth far more than the increased airport taxes and security fees you'd pay ontop of the lower airfare price. Though maybe you have a passion for bus travel that would outweigh the 2 day 5hr longer trip.
All that said, I'm not trying to say Canadian Aviation is the best in the world. I'm just trying to enlighten some of those who lack some very basic understanding of how things work. Flying between two major centers that are close together is always going to be far cheaper than flying between to distant centers with marginal traffic. Comparing Toronto Montreal would be a fair comparison to comparing London, paris, london madrid, london rome etc. It's the only city pairing within canada that has the loads to bring the price down. |
Right, let's pick up some of your points here:
1) Actually i believe i said driving/taking the train to BC is what i would do. Is driving to BC a waste of a 2 week vacation? Perhaps it is for you, but i happen to enjoy the scenery and a good road trip. So i believe that point is really subjective to one's preference.
2) Pet allergy: believe it or not, some dogs do not shed and do not have pet dander which is the biggest cause of dog allergies. My dog happens to be one of those. If i had a dog that shed, i would most likely not take it on board with me anyways. As for the barking, i have yet to see a dog bark the whole way on a long haul flight. Most people give their pets a tranq before or after takeoff depending on whether the dog loses it or not. And my small dog does ride with me, but apologies accepted anyways.
3) I believe I was talking about distances from Toronto to Paris/Casa, not London to Moscow, but uhm... sure.
4) Ahhh the picture. How did i know you were going to pull that out? A good try, i'll give you that much. Okay, here's my take on it: first things first though, when i look at AC, i see 6 crashes so far, from 1970 onwards. Now, looking from 1970 onwards for Air France, i see it
has had 5 crashes, 3 of them with no casualties.
Secondly: (might i just say that i never said i liked A340s, you must have confused it for my A380 comment, i prefer 747s to be completely honest) The crash you are referring to itself, and i quote:
| quote: |
The flight landed during reports of exceptionally bad weather — severe winds, heavy rain, and localized thunderstorms near the airport (see weather, below), and touched down further along the runway than usual. Some passengers report that the plane was rocking from side to side before landing, possibly due to turbulence and gusting winds associated with the storm systems.
The plane was cleared to land at 16:04 EDT on Runway 24L, which at 9,000 feet (2,743 m) in length, was the shortest runway at Pearson Airport.
All passengers and crew evacuated successfully. There were 43 minor injuries and no fatalities. The aircraft was destroyed by a post-crash fire. |
I'd just like to say in closing for this point, "he who lives in a glass house should not throw stones at others". There are very few airlines to my knowledge that have not yet crashed at least once.
5) The logic of the network may have escaped you. Last i checked Casablanca was in Morocco, not France.
6) In the World Airline Awards 2007, Air France got 4 stars and Air Canada 3 stars. Funny how an airline that is not as good as another is still more expensive...
P.S. My uncle is a long haul pilot, piloting 747s and i've listened to him enough that i know a little bit about what i am talking about. |
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| failsafe |
| quote: | Originally posted by loca
P.S. My uncle is a long haul pilot, piloting 747s and i've listened to him enough that i know a little bit about what i am talking about. |
Agreed you know a *little* of what you're talking about.
:rolleyes: |
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| malek |
failsafe, people are outraged at canadian prices and are half right about it, not because the price are really expensive but because the undue blame they put on Canadian airlines.
Their outrage should be directed at the Federal govt for surcharging us for such idiocies as security surcharges, outrageous airport rental fees and a load of other taxes. Is it normal that Pearson has become one of the most expensive airport to land in the world? No disrespect, Toronto is not Heathrow, Narita or CDG.
Its also not a surprise that a second US airport has popped just across the border to serve the Montreal market (plattsburgh, NY and Burlington, VT). Plattburgh is now offering free parking and is barely an hour away from downtown MTL.
Flying from the US will become very attractive to Canadians not only because the dollar is at par, but because prices are fankly just cheaper. |
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| djbruuen |
| quote: | Originally posted by failsafe
Agreed you know a *little* of what you're talking about.
:rolleyes: |
you sure like to bend the truth to try to prove a point. i could find archival footage of an air canada crash, and what difference would that make? its not like i'd boycott airfance because of that photo. Same goes with you price comparison earlier.
and if costs are the issue. why can i go much further distances from airports in the states at cheaper prices than shorter distances from within canada? i'm sure the US planes need just as much fuel and have equal costs etc. |
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| dEsidEL |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
Their outrage should be directed at the Federal govt for surcharging us for such idiocies as security surcharges, outrageous airport rental fees and a load of other taxes. Is it normal that Pearson has become one of the most expensive airport to land in the world? No disrespect, Toronto is not Heathrow, Narita or CDG.
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agreed.. i could never really quite understand this as well. Buffalo will likely benefit largely from the Toronto market.
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| malek |
| quote: | Originally posted by dEsidEL
agreed.. i could never really quite understand this as well. Buffalo will likely benefit largely from the Toronto market.
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1/3 of passangers at Burlington are from Montréal... now Plattsburgh isn't even shy announcing itself as Montréal's US airport.
with complete services in both languages
http://www.plattsburghinternationalairport.com |
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| loca |
| quote: | Originally posted by djbruuen
you sure like to bend the truth to try to prove a point. i could find archival footage of an air canada crash, and what difference would that make? its not like i'd boycott airfance because of that photo. Same goes with you price comparison earlier.
and if costs are the issue. why can i go much further distances from airports in the states at cheaper prices than shorter distances from within canada? i'm sure the US planes need just as much fuel and have equal costs etc. |
Thank you!
failsafe: I don't know what you're trying to say but the fact that the only thing you quoted was the i know "a little" of what i'm talking about with a little eye rolling smiley makes me realize you're too stubborn to have a proper discussion on this and, as bruuen posted, you like to twist the truth to your advantage.
I don't need to be a pilot to make sense, all i need to do is a little research and use some logic as well as personal experiences to put my point on the table. Btw, the distance between Moscow and London is only 126.03 miles closer than Toronto and Edmonton.
p.s. bruuen i'm pretty certain failsafe is going to reply something concerning terrorists being in US planes, show you a pic of 911, and tell you that you get what you pay for in reference to your last point. |
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| King Luis |
flights will be cheaper to go to europe because there is more competition from other companies, as within canada flights theres west jet and air canada and no one else that could compete with them.
i'm travelling to edmonton in december and i'm praying that prices drop hugely. |
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| drgoodvibe |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
1/3 of passangers at Burlington are from Montréal... now Plattsburgh isn't even shy announcing itself as Montréal's US airport.
with complete services in both languages
http://www.plattsburghinternationalairport.com |
that absolutely blows my mind. How is it that Americans can build infrastructure for mostly Canadian citizens across the border. Wow we're so very behind.. |
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| malek |
| quote: | Originally posted by drgoodvibe
that absolutely blows my mind. How is it that Americans can build infrastructure for mostly Canadian citizens across the border. Wow we're so very behind.. |
to be frank, it was a military airport, its now decomissioned and converted for civilian purposes. The landing strip is so big that it could easily accomodate a 747. |
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| E2EK1EL |
| quote: | Originally posted by dEsidEL
this article actually came out a few weeks ago but thought it was an interesting read nonetheless..
another one of the reasons why i never visit Vancouver during the summer, especially when it's cheaper to fly to Europe instead..
source:
http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/252237
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There's nothing in Vancouver worth visting. |
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