|
Domestic airfares on upward path (pg. 5)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by AdReNaLiNa
And don't forget Vueling.. best low cost airline I've encountered!
Oh and if anyone wants to go to Paris in October, you can go for about $450 (including taxes) with Zoom. I'll take that over Calgary any day.. |
Never heard of Vueling... ill have to check it out. |
|
|
| dEsidEL |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Never heard of Vueling... ill have to check it out. |
they're an Iberian based discount airline. I flew from Sevilla to Barcelona once for 40 Euros (taxes in!) which was awesome. The flight was actually cheaper and faster than taking the train even if you include check in times, etc. The departure and arrivals were both at each city's primary airports as well.
www.vueling.com
ps. the staff were also extremely friendly & good looking ;)
|
|
|
| failsafe |
Jayx: You said you had footage. I said if you have video footage then post it. If you check back I made very specific reference to video because you had used the word footage not photo.
The secondary airports in Canada don't serve the population base that the secondary airports in Europe serve. I know this is hard to get your head around, but flying out of Hamilton would only be comparable to London stansed or london lutton if the GTA had a population base similar to Greater londons 14,000,000. We're a long way away from that and unfortunately a long way away from the kind of service that kind of population can support. There have been many low cost carriers that have tried to start up and fill the niche that doesn't exist within Canada. The latest being Canjet, with Jetsgo being the second most recent failure.
I don't disagree with parts of what you're saying. I think that it's easy to say 'we need this, they have it in ______ so we should have it'. It's much harder to look beyond your want of cheaper tickets to understand what you actually require to achieve this goal. |
|
|
| AdReNaLiNa |
| quote: | Originally posted by dEsidEL
they're an Iberian based discount airline. I flew from Sevilla to Barcelona once for 40 Euros (taxes in!) which was awesome. The flight was actually cheaper and faster than taking the train even if you include check in times, etc. The departure and arrivals were both at each city's primary airports as well.
www.vueling.com
ps. the staff were also extremely friendly & good looking ;)
|
You noticed that about the staff too? At first, I thought it was just a coincidence but after the 3rd flight there was definately a pattern lol.
Overall though, I liked how efficient (and on time) this airline is. |
|
|
| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by failsafe
Jayx: You said you had footage. I said if you have video footage then post it. If you check back I made very specific reference to video because you had used the word footage not photo.
The secondary airports in Canada don't serve the population base that the secondary airports in Europe serve. I know this is hard to get your head around, but flying out of Hamilton would only be comparable to London stansed or london lutton if the GTA had a population base similar to Greater londons 14,000,000. We're a long way away from that and unfortunately a long way away from the kind of service that kind of population can support. There have been many low cost carriers that have tried to start up and fill the niche that doesn't exist within Canada. The latest being Canjet, with Jetsgo being the second most recent failure.
I don't disagree with parts of what you're saying. I think that it's easy to say 'we need this, they have it in ______ so we should have it'. It's much harder to look beyond your want of cheaper tickets to understand what you actually require to achieve this goal. |
what diff does video footage make from those pics? both tell the tale dont they? As for the secondary airports, If what you said were true then why are they trying yet again to build the pickering airport and expand toronto island? I think secondary airports DO have demand at least in the GTA.
For the Record. Canada ALREADY has secondary airports that are doing well. They are called Montpelier Vermont, Buffalo New York, Detroit Michigan, and Bellingham Washington to name a few. As always, Leave it to the americans to fill a void that canadians cant or wont fill! I personally havnt flown out of toronto in at least 7 years and will continue that way until prices are reasonable. Furthermore, my travel does not include canada due to the prohibitive costs compared with a vacation elsewhere including the US.
IF CANADA CANT COMPETE I SIMPLY WONT GIVE CANADA MY BUSINESS. I dont care what the reasons are, the bellyaching, the heartache. If we really want to fix the problem we would. if the americans can do it in buffalo, why cant WE do it in Hamilton?
I find it interesting that JetBlue hasnt even bothered to fly here even though they now serve even mexico and the dominican. Perhaps its our taxes, the highest landing fees in the world etc that prohibit north america's #1 low cost airline from coming here? |
|
|
| failsafe |
I had used video footage because it in most cases would be more current. You can find photo's of the hindenberg, but there's no video of it. That was the point I was trying to make. To save you the time of hitting the history books and finding an accident from 30 years ago which has no relevance to todays aircraft.
When are they going to break ground on the pickering airport again? All talk so far. Toronto Island has existed for a very long time and it's traffic has remained nearly constant. There's been plenty of different companies that have tried to make a go of it, porter being the most recent. None have been able to stay there for long. The economics of the Dash 8 q-400 may be the change that allows it to work this time though, so long as porter doesn't have the issues with the landing gear that earlier production numbers had.
You crack me up man. I'm pretty sure detriot would be a busy airport regardless of how close a very insignificant city like windsor was to it. Buffalo serves all of north western new york too. It's not like it's existence is justified by it's proximity to Toronto.
Perhaps jetblue hasn't come to toronto because they realize that their prices wouldn't be much different than the carriers already coming here. If they thought the market existed surely they'd be here. |
|
|
| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by failsafe
I had used video footage because it in most cases would be more current. You can find photo's of the hindenberg, but there's no video of it. That was the point I was trying to make. To save you the time of hitting the history books and finding an accident from 30 years ago which has no relevance to todays aircraft.
When are they going to break ground on the pickering airport again? All talk so far. Toronto Island has existed for a very long time and it's traffic has remained nearly constant. There's been plenty of different companies that have tried to make a go of it, porter being the most recent. None have been able to stay there for long. The economics of the Dash 8 q-400 may be the change that allows it to work this time though, so long as porter doesn't have the issues with the landing gear that earlier production numbers had.
You crack me up man. I'm pretty sure detriot would be a busy airport regardless of how close a very insignificant city like windsor was to it. Buffalo serves all of north western new york too. It's not like it's existence is justified by it's proximity to Toronto.
Perhaps jetblue hasn't come to toronto because they realize that their prices wouldn't be much different than the carriers already coming here. If they thought the market existed surely they'd be here. |
Interesting... So you site Detroit as a failed example but ignore the other 2 and completely misrepresent the 4th.
Buffalo serves Buffalo. Rochester serves Rochester. Yes Buffalo would still exist without Toronto but im willing to bet that at least half their business now comes from Torontonians.
How could JetBlue's prices be the same as the other carriers out of Toronto without artificial factors? A flight to JFK on JetBlue from Buffalo typically costs $150. A flight from PEarson to JFK typically costs $350. Are you saying that to fly the extra 60 miles across the lake (probably less when taking into account actual strait line distances from JFK) justify a $200 price difference?
Why cant all the business going to Buffalo stay in Toronto? Why cant the government of canada rectify the situation by recognizing the glaring large differences in operating costs? We already have Hamilton, why not expand that airport and make it Toronto's Gatwick with lower fees and taxes associated with it? Why not encourage cheap regional flights from it to places like NYC and Chicago? Why not offer a cheap connection to the 2 closest major hubs of North America thus becoming a major hub ourselves?
Why? Because of attitudes like yours. A millions reasons why we cant with no reasons why we should. This is why Canada always will play second fiddle to most of the world.
There is NO JUSTIFIABLE REASON why a Torontonian should have to go to Buffalo to save half on a flight that is practically the same distance in length as one to Toronto. The only reason private enterprise has generally failed to step up to the plate to offer viable competition is mostly because of TAXES, RESTRICTIONS AND REGULATIONS IMPOSED ON AIRLINES AND THE CANADIAN TRAVELLING PUBLIC.
But, as long as this huge disparity exists, people will vote with their feet and their wallets as they are doing now. Meaning Canada loses jobs, capital and taxes in the process.
I guess we could call it Canadian 2 tier travelling? |
|
|
| failsafe |
Montreal already has a secondary airport, it's located to the north of the city and it was supposed to split the load. It never happened because there wasn't the market for it. Toronto will continue to exist as it does now until the population expands massively. You can fly point to point from buffalo, but most overseas or international travelers still need to ARIVE in toronto because it's a hub. You can't arrive in buffalo and get a connection to saskatoon. The same is true for London Heathrow. Everyone still uses it because you can fly there and then connect to anywhere in the world. That's the advantage of the hub, you're paying for the connections. If you don't need to hub then by all means drive 2.5hrs to the boarder, maybe wizz right through, or maybe wait another hour to cross and then fly to JFK from there saving yourself some cash maybe.
My time is worth money, and saving 150 bucks on a ticket doesn't out weigh the extra 5hrs on a round trip not to mention the pain in the ass that flying out of second tier airports cause.
I still really don't believe you grasp the while hub and spoke thing. Toronto is a hub, buffalo is nothing more than a spoke. |
|
|
| malek |
| quote: | Originally posted by failsafe
Montreal already has a secondary airport, it's located to the north of the city and it was supposed to split the load. It never happened because there wasn't the market for it. |
Thats a very short simplification, lets just say that when a level of government wants to impose its will, bad things happen. |
|
|
| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by failsafe
Montreal already has a secondary airport, it's located to the north of the city and it was supposed to split the load. It never happened because there wasn't the market for it. Toronto will continue to exist as it does now until the population expands massively. You can fly point to point from buffalo, but most overseas or international travelers still need to ARIVE in toronto because it's a hub. You can't arrive in buffalo and get a connection to saskatoon. The same is true for London Heathrow. Everyone still uses it because you can fly there and then connect to anywhere in the world. That's the advantage of the hub, you're paying for the connections. If you don't need to hub then by all means drive 2.5hrs to the boarder, maybe wizz right through, or maybe wait another hour to cross and then fly to JFK from there saving yourself some cash maybe.
My time is worth money, and saving 150 bucks on a ticket doesn't out weigh the extra 5hrs on a round trip not to mention the pain in the ass that flying out of second tier airports cause.
I still really don't believe you grasp the while hub and spoke thing. Toronto is a hub, buffalo is nothing more than a spoke. |
Buffalo is a spoke that cheaply connects to JFK which is yet another very cheap hub to fly from. Ive used Buffalo's spoke many many times and probably have saved about $5000 over the last 7 years doing so. Perhaps Mirabel would have worked had they lowered the taxes and had cheaper fares?
You have completely ignored my argument about costs imposed on canadians. But as i said, talk as much as you want about why the canadian system works while everyone else heads to buffalo. Thats fine by me. A minor incovenience for now. At least we arent talking about health care, yet another industry in canada that is stuck in the status quo.
PS: Gatwick and Stanstead are no spokes. They serve international flights and Stanstead is Pan European. |
|
|
| Misanthrope |
| quote: | Originally posted by monishb
not reallymy mom worked almost 15 years at dubai international airport and they dont make good money at all, she even worked in toronto at pearson air canada paid her a measley 12$/hr which is peanuts and she finally ended up leaving the job. |
uhh yeah, you can't exactly compare the wage of someone who works at the airport in dubai to any other airport in the world!! |
|
|
| Jayx1 |
One thing i forgot to mention. Flying from a spoke, or secondary city is traditionally MORE EXPENSIVE than flying from a hub.
Taking this into account, Buffalo is still much CHEAPER than the hub that is Toronto.
Very telling.... |
|
|
|
|
