The crash in 1978 was on the same runway as Air France btw.
Jayx1
I dont think failsafe has ever heard of Ryanair, easyjet, Berlin Air, Zoom, Buzz, Zip, GermanWings, and the list goes on.
These airlines will get you three or 4 hours away (by air) for the price of your lunch. When i flew ryanair to italy from london, THE TRAIN RIDE TO THE AIRPORT COST MORE THAN THE FLIGHT. Yes, the seating was cattle class and there were no snacks. But have you checked air canada lately? Try to get a meal on a domestic flight. They dont even offer aeroplan on the cheapest flights anymore.
Ryanair got me where i was going and it was dirt cheap. And they are currently the most profitable airline in Europe. Go figure.
My guess is that failsafe works for a unionized airline (which is one of the reasons we pay so much) and doesnt want his salary threatened. I cant blame him for his protectionist views if thats the case.
Canada needs to lower it's taxes. Offer more competition, and fully deregulate the skies. If we were to have an open skies agreement with countries like the US and EU they would operate domestically here and Air Canada/Westjet could operate domestically over there. The prices come down, more money gets made and everyone is happy.
Sadly the canadian mentality is always inward instead of outward. We like our grain of sand on the beach and we will do everything we can to defend it in spite of all the buckets of sand that you are offering us!
Why innovate when you can procrastinate?
malek
quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
Why innovate when you can procrastinate?
beeeeotch!
sounds like a good rhyme from a 80s rap song:p
but its sadly too true.
tatgirl
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmic Fur
Do the Canadians pay less than everyone else for ANYTHING?
Dental work in TO is definitely cheaper than it is in the DC area.
That's about it, so far (but I'm still looking).
Jayx1
The only thing ive ever found cheaper in Canada are trips to Cuba. And considering you cant go to Cuba from the US, id say thats the reason LOL.
dEsidEL
quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
I dont think failsafe has ever heard of Ryanair, easyjet, Berlin Air, Zoom, Buzz, Zip, GermanWings, and the list goes on.
These airlines will get you three or 4 hours away (by air) for the price of your lunch. When i flew ryanair to italy from london, THE TRAIN RIDE TO THE AIRPORT COST MORE THAN THE FLIGHT. Yes, the seating was cattle class and there were no snacks. But have you checked air canada lately? Try to get a meal on a domestic flight. They dont even offer aeroplan on the cheapest flights anymore.
Ryanair got me where i was going and it was dirt cheap. And they are currently the most profitable airline in Europe. Go figure.
My guess is that failsafe works for a unionized airline (which is one of the reasons we pay so much) and doesnt want his salary threatened. I cant blame him for his protectionist views if thats the case.
Canada needs to lower it's taxes. Offer more competition, and fully deregulate the skies. If we were to have an open skies agreement with countries like the US and EU they would operate domestically here and Air Canada/Westjet could operate domestically over there. The prices come down, more money gets made and everyone is happy.
Sadly the canadian mentality is always inward instead of outward. We like our grain of sand on the beach and we will do everything we can to defend it in spite of all the buckets of sand that you are offering us!
Why innovate when you can procrastinate?
i almost liken this to the price gouging we experience in the telecom market as well as the disparate pricing around new automobiles, etc.. but i guess let's not go there for fear of jacking this thread with a whole new can of worms..
hey at least we'll have the nicest looking teeth around here.. long live Canadian protectionism! :eyespop:
failsafe
quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
I dont think failsafe has ever heard of Ryanair, easyjet, Berlin Air, Zoom, Buzz, Zip, GermanWings, and the list goes on.
These airlines will get you three or 4 hours away (by air) for the price of your lunch. When i flew ryanair to italy from london, THE TRAIN RIDE TO THE AIRPORT COST MORE THAN THE FLIGHT. Yes, the seating was cattle class and there were no snacks. But have you checked air canada lately? Try to get a meal on a domestic flight. They dont even offer aeroplan on the cheapest flights anymore.
Ryanair got me where i was going and it was dirt cheap. And they are currently the most profitable airline in Europe. Go figure.
My guess is that failsafe works for a unionized airline (which is one of the reasons we pay so much) and doesnt want his salary threatened. I cant blame him for his protectionist views if thats the case.
Canada needs to lower it's taxes. Offer more competition, and fully deregulate the skies. If we were to have an open skies agreement with countries like the US and EU they would operate domestically here and Air Canada/Westjet could operate domestically over there. The prices come down, more money gets made and everyone is happy.
Sadly the canadian mentality is always inward instead of outward. We like our grain of sand on the beach and we will do everything we can to defend it in spite of all the buckets of sand that you are offering us!
Why innovate when you can procrastinate?
Jayx: Wow congrats on digging up accident records from a quarter century ago. Air Canada crashed lots in the 1940's too, you should look into that. Air France crashed last year, in a fully modern jet. The majority of the accidents you have posted there could never happen today because of the added safety features that todays planes have incorporated.
All the airlines you talked about are low cost carriers flying out of secondary airports. They don't have to pay massive airport landing fees and hangarage fees at world class airports. RyanAir and the likes fly out on lonton lutton or stansed to keep their costs down. So you're not even close to comparing apples to apples.
You can get meals on all Air Canada domestic flights. The routes the ERJ's fly only offer cold meals. Anything else has warm meals. Yes you do pay for it with most ticket classes, but it exists. Same with WestJet.
Way to make assumptions about where I work. You referenced a union Airline, which Air Canada is the only major one in Canada. Do you even have a slight clue of what pilots make there? A new hire at Air Canada starts at just over $35,000/yr. So don't give me this sob story about union wages keeping prices up. A new hire at WestJet starts at $45,000/yr. If you wanted money you could drive a bus and easily make twice the money with no training investment and without needing a decade within the buisness to gain the experience you need to qualify for the job.
Deregulation has been talked about quite a bit, I think it's in the near future for North America. Though with the Cheaper American Carriers comes far less experienced pilots. Jazz typically hires copilots with 4000hrs of experience, the american equivilants hire with 200-500hrs of flight experience.
Here's a youtube video about the state of the american industry.
You want to talk about protectionist views towards my Salary? Watch the youtube video man. There's nothing left to protect. Half the copilots I know have to work second jobs to pay the rent. Mike Moore addressed poor pilot pay in his book "dude where's my country". You'd easily make more driving a truck with no education and very limited training. So don't for a second think that pilots don't earn what very little they make. Salaries have almost halved in most cases since September 11th.
Cosmic Fur
, I always thought people in airports were making mad money.
failsafe
Cosmic: At the very top end if you're lucky enough to fly wide body for a major carrier like Delta, Air Canada, American Airlines etc, there is good money. The problem is that you're so very poorly paid for the first Decade or more of your career that you send the next 20 years digging yourself out of debt. How do you afford to have a family, car, house etc on 30k/yr and avoid going in to debt all while living within a quick drive to the airport to be able to make your on call duties. It's definitely a feat very few do without coming into Aviation with a healthy bank account to dip into, or finding a spouse who has enough money to support you. Another thing to consider, is that most pilots will never make it to fly Captain on a wide body jet to make the good money. So they'll have sacrificed much for very little in return in the terms of money and life style.
The crazy part is you just can't walk into these low paying jobs. To even get your foot in the door with these low paying jobs you'll have to have dropped nearly $60,000 in getting your licenses, years and years building flight experience just to have a shot at the jobs.
Once you've gotten the experience to apply for the job you're tested to a nearly insane degree. For Air Canada you do 3 psych tests which flow over about 1000 questions. A full medical including drug test, blood test, urine test, hearing test, vision test, ear drum curvature test, mental cognitive tests and a panel interview. Less than 30% of those that make it to the interview process are successful.
Job Security is almost nil at the major airlines too. Once you're over 40yrs old you go in for twice yearly medicals with ECG and blood work tests. Failure to pass the medical means your career is over. You're also in the sim twice a year doing flight tests, which can end your career too. So once every three months your life plan comes under danger of being thrown to the wolves.
Sorry this was so long winded, it just kills me when someone who has no clue about this profession starts talking crap about how it's a union job and the salary is implied as being too high.
:D
monishb
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmic Fur
, I always thought people in airports were making mad money.
not reallymy mom worked almost 15 years at dubai international airport and they dont make good money at all, she even worked in toronto at pearson air canada paid her a measley 12$/hr which is peanuts and she finally ended up leaving the job.
AdReNaLiNa
quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
I dont think failsafe has ever heard of Ryanair, easyjet, Berlin Air, Zoom, Buzz, Zip, GermanWings, and the list goes on.
And don't forget Vueling.. best low cost airline I've encountered!
Oh and if anyone wants to go to Paris in October, you can go for about $450 (including taxes) with Zoom. I'll take that over Calgary any day..
Jayx1
Failsafe:
I can compare low cost carriers because they exist. Canada has secondary airports such as Hamilton and (formerly) Mirabel yet we dont have the same luxury. The flights that leave Hamilton and Toronto Island are almost the same price as those leaving out of pearson (save the $20 improvement fee). Why? High taxes and LACK OF COMPETITION. As i said, lets open the skies up so we can all benefit.
As for your salary? No i dont proport to know where you work and what you make. And i do know that it takes a pilot many many hours and a lot of expense to get hired. But i do have a cousin who is a pilot for a major airline in canada. It's tough to get a job in Canada and the starting salary is . But what you fail to mention is that the salary shoots up rapidly after you get in. And hey, I say good for you. You probably deserve it.
However, dont go slamming the european model. It obviously works in a part of the world with even more socialist worker protection rules than what we have.
As i said, the problem in Canada (and north america in general) is that we lost our will to innovate. Whether thats a product of our stifling regulations and taxes or just the way we are, i dont know. But its sad.
As for the airline disasters. You mentioned before to "show me a photo of an air canada disaster".... And i gave you what you asked for.
