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Guestlists. What are they good for? (pg. 4)
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| activate |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
I'm saying that there isn't an exclusive list limited to only 15-20 people. Well no, I'm sure there is...but one can still get in the club free and bypass the line without being on it. There are other "lists". |
ok. don't doubt that at all.
I've only been 5 times in the last 2 years. twice the dude that runs it put my on list and just saw that it was only a few names scribbled on a piece of paper. twice I was DJing and the other time I just happened to have a record bag and walked right in ;) |
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| SuperJimbo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Superstring
Like someone mentioned, it's a clientèle loyalty thing.
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The following factors also generate customer loyalty:
01. Bringing in the best djs/talent at reasonable ticket prices
02. Investing in a high quality sound system
03. Investing in lighting/lasers/video that people enjoy
04. Investing in decor that is appropriate for the clientele you are trying to attract
05. Hiring friendly and courteous staff
06. Making sure there are enough bartenders
07. Hiring good/badass bouncers that keep things under control
08. Finding creative ways to bring more women into the club
09. Managing efficient and "fair" lines at the door
10. Managing efficient coat checks
11. Etc. etc. etc.
IMO, guestlists are way down the list of items that generate customer loyalty, and in many cases, do more harm than good.
| quote: | Originally posted by Superstring
Shaya or John Tang can probably clarify this, but the guestlist probably gives you a fairly accurate reading of how many people are going to come in on any given night.
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They clearly assist in giving a reading of how much interest there is in a dj. I'm just arguing that guestlists, as a measurement tool, are unnecessary.
| quote: | Originally posted by Superstring
It also guarantees that at the very least, the die-hard fans of the venue (of the music, whatever) are going to be in.
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Diehard fans know how sh*t works. If it's going to be a busy night, they know to get to the club a bit earlier. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by activate
the other time I just happened to have a record bag and walked right in ;) |
:stongue: :stongue: |
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| catinthehat |
I don't see a real problem with them...Sometimes I use them sometimes I don't. Any time I go to a club I expect to wait and expect to pay. If I can get in quicker and save 5 bucks, hey, why not? That's a little warmer I'll be and basically a free drink (which will make me even warmer :P)
Is it worth it for the club to employ them? I have no idea, I'm not in industry. I just know that as a customer, they can only help me. |
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| She_Fitz |
| quote: | Originally posted by SuperJimbo
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Hahahah... we are not that different at all friend. I was using generalizations not what I need at a party.
I think the scope of what guestlist is has changed... it is no longer about getting past the velvet rope like it once was.
But putting ourselves aside... think of conversations you have over heard prior to going into the club. Generally, people on a GL feel that they have some advantage over the rest.
An excellent marketing ploy... make people (average people - not those smarter than the average bear) feel special and they will come to your club. |
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| jchung52 |
glists are used to:
- determine approx numbers that will be coming (although many times inaccurate as people put themselves on multiple lists or put themselves on +10 or something and show up with only 2)
- pay promoters (depending on how it is worked out, basic promoters go by paid heads coming through the door)
- make people feel special (the majority of people do not know staff at the door; by getting them on a list, that can in many cases reduce the need to wait and pay less, why wouldnt u want to be on list)
- to add to the 1st point, force people to come earlier (eg. list is good until 11pm or subject to capacity. last time i checked, having people in the bar earlier usually means more money spent and the subject to capacity line means that if its busy, sucks to be you for not coming earlier) |
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| SuperJimbo |
| quote: | Originally posted by jchung52
- make people feel special (the majority of people do not know staff at the door; by getting them on a list, that can in many cases reduce the need to wait and pay less, why wouldnt u want to be on list) |
You are not a unique and beautiful snowflake, no matter how many guestlists you put yourself on.
| quote: | Originally posted by jchung52
- to add to the 1st point, force people to come earlier (eg. list is good until 11pm or subject to capacity. last time i checked, having people in the bar earlier usually means more money spent and the subject to capacity line means that if its busy, sucks to be you for not coming earlier) |
Why not just charge less for people who come earlier? You don't need lists for that. The increase in booze sales will likely offset the reduced cover. Obviously. |
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| Big Boss |
| quote: | Originally posted by SuperJimbo
The following factors also generate customer loyalty:
01. Bringing in the best djs/talent at reasonable ticket prices
02. Investing in a high quality sound system
03. Investing in lighting/lasers/video that people enjoy
04. Investing in decor that is appropriate for the clientele you are trying to attract
05. Hiring friendly and courteous staff
06. Making sure there are enough bartenders
07. Hiring good/badass bouncers that keep things under control
08. Finding creative ways to bring more women into the club
09. Managing efficient and "fair" lines at the door
10. Managing efficient coat checks
11. Etc. etc. etc.
IMO, guestlists are way down the list of items that generate customer loyalty, and in many cases, do more harm than good.
They clearly assist in giving a reading of how much interest there is in a dj. I'm just arguing that guestlists, as a measurement tool, are unnecessary.
Diehard fans know how sh*t works. If it's going to be a busy night, they know to get to the club a bit earlier. |
This is a great post. |
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| jchung52 |
| quote: | Originally posted by SuperJimbo
You are not a unique and beautiful snowflake, no matter how many guestlists you put yourself on. |
obviously but some people think that
| quote: | Originally posted by SuperJimbo
Why not just charge less for people who come earlier? You don't need lists for that. The increase in booze sales will likely offset the reduced cover. Obviously. |
some places do that in place of a guestlist. Cover is pure cash where as a drink has costs related to it. What would you rather have, $6000 cash from the door in a night or $6000 in booze sales |
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| SuperJimbo |
| quote: | Originally posted by jchung52
some places do that in place of a guestlist. Cover is pure cash where as a drink has costs related to it. What would you rather have, $6000 cash from the door in a night or $6000 in booze sales |
I said "reduced" cover. To see if it is worth it, I'm sure someone could run the math and figure out the optimal reduction in the price of cover, versus the average spend on booze in the early hours (i.e. 10-12) of a club being open. This has nothing to do with guestlists.
P.S. Cash is King. Always. |
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| Big Boss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Superstring
Guestlists are good.
Like someone mentioned, it's a clientèle loyalty thing. On a certain night, I pick the Guv as the venue to visit (or Circa or whatever), and in exchange, I expect a little extra. I don't mind paying the regular door fee, but I do think that skipping the line is OK.
Shaya or John Tang can probably clarify this, but the guestlist probably gives you a fairly accurate reading of how many people are going to come in on any given night. It also guarantees that at the very least, the die-hard fans of the venue (of the music, whatever) are going to be in.
Totally unrelated, but still interesting...
That means in most clubs people get 2.5 drinks per night on average? Doubtless you are well informed, but could this be a mistake? Is the figure closer to $20-$30 maybe?
Regardless, at $15 a pop, average capacity of say 400, that's $6,000. Staff, bouncers, etc, subtract $2,000. Booze and venue, subtract another $2,000. And throw down another $1,000 for misc costs.
That's $1,000 clear profit a night just on booze alone. That's not including the bottle service crowd and the cover (which in itself is another $2,000 or more).
I would say then net profit every night of an average venue is $2,000 per operating night.
Can someone tell me if my math is off? Am I missing something? |
There's more costs than that. I work in the club industry and I know there's a lot of spaces that are barely breaking even and struggling to pay rent, there's some clubs doing ok, and there are others that are doing pretty well, but I'll leave it up to you to figure out what's what.
Some clubs give the promoter the full door, so that is why the promoter wants to make money at the door. A person saying, I should get in for free because I will buy a lot of booze in some circumstances means nothing to the promoter because he won't see a penny of the money you spend at the club, because the promoter gets the door. But to get the door, the promoter has to pay for most promotional expenses, such as design, online advertising, print, flyer distribution, pay the promoters working under him, etc. Sometimes they have to pay for the DJ too. On some nights this is several thousand dollars. And if you let everyone for free, the door makes nothing, and then you have to pay out of pocket for the difference.
Compounding the problem with guestlist is this, everybody is a promoter these days, and some of the struggling or less established promoters get paid a flat fee from the head promoter, so they let in all their friends for free, because they are struggling to bring people, to make it seem like they brought a lot of people. They don't realize they are hurting themselves when doing that, because if they ever get to the position of making the full door themselves, they will never make any money because their friends are so used to not paying to get in that they won't pay later on...
For you TA's you can tell who is an established or not established promoter by the way they are with letting people in for free. Someone that is letting everyone in for free is probably a smaller promoter with no concern for the costs of the night. In this day and age, no club can do a party with just one promoter, you have to farm it out to a bunch of smaller promoters too...that's why guestlists mean nothing.
Guestlist has also changed. I remember back in my day, to get on guestlist at the Drink, not only did you have to get on it several days in advance, you also had to say a "secret password" at the door. Even at This is London, you had to fax in for guestlist with the letterhead of the company you worked for to get in. Now these days, everyone's on guestlist and everyone expects to get in for free.
Some people come out once a month and demand to get in free, while others understand and respect the scene. Throwing a party isn't as easy as it was before... |
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| jchung52 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Big Boss
There's more costs than that. I work in the club industry and I know there's a lot of spaces that are barely breaking even and struggling to pay rent, there's some clubs doing ok, and there are others that are doing pretty well, but I'll leave it up to you to figure out what's what.
Some clubs give the promoter the full door, so that is why the promoter wants to make money at the door. A person saying, I should get in for free because I will buy a lot of booze in some circumstances means nothing to the promoter because he won't see a penny of the money you spend at the club, because the promoter gets the door. But to get the door, the promoter has to pay for most promotional expenses, such as design, online advertising, print, flyer distribution, pay the promoters working under him, etc. Sometimes they have to pay for the DJ too. On some nights this is several thousand dollars. And if you let everyone for free, the door makes nothing, and then you have to pay out of pocket for the difference.
Compounding the problem with guestlist is this, everybody is a promoter these days, and some of the struggling or less established promoters get paid a flat fee from the head promoter, so they let in all their friends for free, because they are struggling to bring people, to make it seem like they brought a lot of people. They don't realize they are hurting themselves when doing that, because if they ever get to the position of making the full door themselves, they will never make any money because their friends are so used to not paying to get in that they won't pay later on...
For you TA's you can tell who is an established or not established promoter by the way they are with letting people in for free. Someone that is letting everyone in for free is probably a smaller promoter with no concern for the costs of the night. In this day and age, no club can do a party with just one promoter, you have to farm it out to a bunch of smaller promoters too...that's why guestlists mean nothing.
Guestlist has also changed. I remember back in my day, to get on guestlist at the Drink, not only did you have to get on it several days in advance, you also had to say a "secret password" at the door. Even at This is London, you had to fax in for guestlist with the letterhead of the company you worked for to get in. Now these days, everyone's on guestlist and everyone expects to get in for free.
Some people come out once a month and demand to get in free, while others understand and respect the scene. Throwing a party isn't as easy as it was before... |
agreed on 99% |
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