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How to innovate trance...? (pg. 3)
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| piku303 |
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don't want to derail the thread but heres a song i made recently. still in development. started out as an experiment of me making a kick from scratch in logics ultrabeat and then it evolved in to this. its somewhat in the style of vibrasphere/solar fields stuff. this is what we need to get back to. can anybody recommend more artists like this? |
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| DJ Eco |
| I think we, as producers, should not trance to other standards simply because it's "dance" music and played in clubs... I try my best to put a ton of emotion in my tunes, but I'll let you be the judge :) But like I said, there shouldn't be another standard or set of rules that trance goes by. There's good, emotional, and well-produced rock music, and there's e rock music that wants to make it to the radio. The same goes for trance. There's absolutely no reason we can't try and break barriers and include things like guitars, pianos, etc. in trance music, and not the cheesy way hehe... I love Frost & Maron's "mute your mind" for example, that's innovative :) |
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| shuni |
| less vocals and radio shows |
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| Trance-MB |
| quote: | Originally posted by Subtle
You`re an biased ASOT regular. Ur one of those evil 1000 producers who make Dance, and calls it Trance.
Trance has always been about innovation. ALWAYS.. All trance tracks from before 2002 always sounded unique and innovative.
Thats why it was so much fun, you bought a new CD and were always looking for that mindblowing new track u had never heard anything like.
And back then, it delivered. |
I personally think that not only Trance has been about innovation, but also the equipment, although I'm not an expert on this. I think with nowadays PC's, synthesizers, drumcomputers and mastering equipment a point has been reached were changes will be less compared what has change in the past. Other genres probably have reached this point already years ago. Any truth in this?
By the way I think I heard a weird track in ASOT 244, just haven't looked which it was yet. |
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| Subtle |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance-MB
I personally think that not only Trance has been about innovation, but also the equipment, although I'm not an expert on this. I think with nowadays PC's, synthesizers, drumcomputers and mastering equipment a point has been reached were changes will be less compared what has change in the past. Other genres probably have reached this point already years ago. Any truth in this?
By the way I think I heard a weird track in ASOT 244, just haven't looked which it was yet. |
The possibilities are endless.
Its just that people arent creative enough, they just try to make exactly what others make. |
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| PETRAN |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
i have no problems with limited emotional palettes, just with unoriginality.
basic channel is like the mark rothko of dance music. i mean the limited, reduced emotional content goes hand in hand with the sonic concept.
with trance it's simply a result of not being creative.
i don't see how you can make any comparsion here. |
First of all, i replied in this way , because it seemed from your first post that you criticised the limited "emotional repertoire" of trance. Second, i didn't just mention dub-techno, which indeed was something original when it came out (well, i mostly mentioned it for the "emotional thing" not the originality)i also mentioned modern techno in general.
If you want to discuss about originality,again, how about modern deep techno such as Vince Watson and Joris Voorn?(who, in the end of the day, copy an 18-year-old sound). If trance is about not being creative for doing the same thing, can't we say the same thing about these producers?
There is no escape from modern EDM sterility, be it techno, house or trance. Ofcourse, low innovation does not automatically imply and low quality. Joris Voorn and Vince Watson have created some excellent deep techno albums (e.g. "From A Deep Place" and "The eMotion Sequence" respectively) by "using" the same-old Detroit formula, eventually producing something very good. Similarly though, you can find some good epic-trance releases as well. As a previous poster said, last year's Cape Town album, "Aviateur", was an excellent lush, almost orhestral at times (had totally forgot about that!)epic-trance work. It used the same end-of-90s epic-formula and produced something very good. Yes, you can still find good music. Problem is, that, no matter how much good music you find, you still hear the same damn 20-year offchord Detroit strings (only more polished) and the same damn super-saws (only more polished). "Yes, i like the music, but can we please move-on and do something new?"
p.s. If you like Basic Channel, then listen to Fluxion's "Vibrant Forms-1". Best Minimal Techno album EVER together with Gas's "Konigsforst" or "Pop". EVER...! |
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| nefardec |
PETRAN,
I was clearly only criticizing unoriginality.
I mentioned basic channel specifically because it was original when it was formed.
I don't really want to defend voorn or vince watson, because I don't have that much respect for what they do. I like their tracks generally, and there is a lot of obvious nostalgia in their stuff. You have to be kidding me though if you think their creative process (or lack thereof) is the same as the creative processes that are documented in the TA music production forum.
Anyways, there's nothing wrong with using 'historic' instruments. Look at classical music. I mean voorn has tracks that are entirely about analog synthesizers. He's not trying to hide it.
I think Voorn is in every way more creative than say someone like Tom Colontonio. Again, I don't see how you can be seriously making this comparison.
I mean obviously there are other genres in which artists emulate one another, so if this is your only point, I'd say it's just wasted time time on your part - it goes without saying.
I think the sterility thing is more subjective and nostalgia based. There's no way of proving that something is more sterile these days than in earlier days. I agree with you that they are, but I say that knowing it's completely arbitrary and based on my personal nostalgia and romance of the past. Why do you think Voorn and Vince Watson do what they do anyways? I mean their is supposed to be an homage to Detroit and to Analog Synthesis... trance music on the other hand is just plain ing unoriginal.
I'm sure they would be the first to admit their nostalgia and romanticizing of detroit (bordering on fetishism). With trance these days, however, producers emulate simply because they want to sound professional and make tracks that sound like they could be played by Armin van Buuren. Go visit the production forum, there's a mountain of evidence to support this...
ill check out fluxion, thanks |
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| Unable |
No room for Supernaturalistic? :conf: |
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| SYSTEM-J |
Really, it would be so ing easy to make innovative trance. If I had any compositional or production talent I'd be doing it right now, because I can see so many ways of doing it.
I can think of tracks from the mid-90s that did things that were never picked up on. Tracks composed in completely different parts that developed into the next one, never re-using hooks or melodic themes from earlier sections. Tracks that kept the melody completely seperate from the beat. Tracks that had nothing to do with leading melodies supported by harmonies. I mean, if trance actually started using polyphony and layered counter-point more it'd sound completely different. Take away the breakdown, take away the peak, hell- take away the percussive intro/outro. Introduce your melodies straight away, or don't introduce them until the end. Drop them in. Oh, and for the love of God, find a musical way of evoking a build or rise in tension that isn't a ing snare roll. |
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| Subtle |
Trance sounded so much more fun when they only used Synthesizers and Drum Machines.
Its the drum machines that really define the old trance, and the way the made it. They made the music with their feeling.. not just throwing in some vengeance samples and effects on top of some multilayered softsynth listening to the latest Armin compilation. |
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| AustralianGQ |
| trance is changing again. we are seeing less commercial, house, electro stuff and more baleric, uplifting, epic trance. more influence from the late 90's and early 2000, which is a good thing for alot of ppl here. |
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| enydo |
| quote: | Originally posted by AustralianGQ
trance is changing again. we are seeing less commercial |
wat |
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