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FAO Anti-Zionists. Serious question (pg. 3)
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
1. I said the refugees should be compensated.
2. Withdrawal of Israel settlements would give Palestinians access to their aquifers as the settlements are strategically placed to control the aquifer system of the West Bank.
3. Jerusalem would be divided between east and west. |
Those are three pretty good reasons why your agreement would never hold. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Those are three pretty good reasons why your agreement would never hold. |
why not |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kinezi
There is no action needed from PAlestine side at all.. as they already said they will do it.. this problem they have created. |
hmm isnt that a natural reaction? think about it,they have been bombed,killed,kicked out of their houses for many years,for them wanting to have revenge is a natural behaviour?you think they should just forget about the past and simply pretened nothing happend? |
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| CHRles |
First of all, you guys are dreaming if you think part of Jerusalem will ever go to the Palestinians. Not only will Israel so vehemently reject such a notion, but so will the Christian world. If anything, part of Jerusalem may be turned over to Jordan.
Secondly, the right of return? Not going to happen. Facts are most of the palestinians who left their homes in 47/48 did so just prior to the war b/c neighboring Arab countries encouraged them to do so. The palestinians who left didn't want to take part in the war, ie defend their so called home, and figured they'd let the armies of their neighbors do their dirty work for them. Well, those armies LOST. Deal with it.
Some palestinians stayed and also stayed out of the war, and they become known as Arab Israelis. Some palestinians stayed and fought, and they were the ones who were killed, but you all keep forgetting that a lot of Jewish Israelis died in the 1948 war as well.
What happened after 48? Egypt took control of the Gaza strip, but pretty much just ignored the Palestinian population. Jordan on the other hand, which got control of the West Bank, gave the Palestinians a Jordanian citizenship. In fact, the majority of the population of Jordan was already Palestinian prior to 48 - some Palestinians moved to Jordan in the 19th century, and a lot moved there around the 1920s for economic reasons.
So again, if you guys are just going to come up with simple solutions then here's another one - move the population of the Gaza Strip to the Sinai peninsula...which is a lot bigger then the entire state of Israel. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
hmm isnt that a natural reaction? think about it,they have been bombed,killed,kicked out of their houses for many years,for them wanting to have revenge is a natural behaviour?you think they should just forget about the past and simply pretened nothing happend? |
yeah, we get it, poor Palestinians; they have the right to enact revenge. in that case, the Israelis have the right to kick the out of the Palestinians upon the incidents of revenge. you people should be consistent with you principles. if you are appalled at the violence on innocent Palestinians you should be similarly appalled at the violence on innocent Israelis. it's that kind of bull mentality that precludes the cessation of violence. sure, anger is natural, but killing other people, and cheering on the death of people is not natural. the problem i have with certain people who support the Palestinian cause is they actually want to see the Israeli people suffer; whereas, the Israeli people just want to live without fear. |
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| Kinezi |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
hmm isnt that a natural reaction? think about it,they have been bombed,killed,kicked out of their houses for many years,for them wanting to have revenge is a natural behaviour?you think they should just forget about the past and simply pretened nothing happend? |
I said its only Israeil that need to step forward and take action to solve the problem they have created. Israel messed up whole Middle East and noone else. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kinezi
I said its only Israeil that need to step forward and take action to solve the problem they have created. Israel messed up whole Middle East and noone else. |
how about the UN? |
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| CHRles |
Hello people, this is the messiah. I have Jehovah here with me and we've come up with the BEST solution. It will actually be feasible very soon so hear this out:
Create two large man-made islands in the Mediterrenean. Cyprus is feeling lonely out there anyway. Both islands can be the size of modern day Israel, or better yet the size of biblical Israel (which included parts of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and prolly Egypt). The Jews will move to one of the islands, and the Palestinians to the other ones.
And what of the actual land of Israel, the so called land of milk and honey, the promised land? Well, it turns out that land was also promised to some of my dear alien friends. The creatures of Mars and Venus agreed not to conquer your primitive planet if you let them build time-share properties in and around Jerusalem.
A wise man once said "live long, prosper". Well, I have, and now so can you! ;) |
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| Kinezi |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
how about the UN? |
Well UN was shoved out of Gaza and West Bank long time back.. with building of walls.. and Israeli bulldozers killing UN workers and press and whatever came in there way. Kofi Annan is a faliure.. his tenure at UN has dismanteled UN and of all it powers. |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
yeah, we get it, poor Palestinians; they have the right to enact revenge. in that case, the Israelis have the right to kick the out of the Palestinians upon the incidents of revenge. you people should be consistent with you principles. if you are appalled at the violence on innocent Palestinians you should be similarly appalled at the violence on innocent Israelis. it's that kind of bull mentality that precludes the cessation of violence. sure, anger is natural, but killing other people, and cheering on the death of people is not natural. the problem i have with certain people who support the Palestinian cause is they actually want to see the Israeli people suffer; |
I didnt say they have to go kill Israeli civillians and call it revenge,all I said is that for them to feel angry and wanting to take revenge is a normal reaction.What would you do as a palestinian?just forget about the past?
If you are so against violence then how do you justify Isreali aggression over the last few decades? violence is what got them the land they now call "Israel" dont forget that.
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whereas, the Israeli people just want to live without fear. |
so for them not to live in fear means that have to take over Palestinian lands? |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kinezi
I said its only Israeil that need to step forward and take action to solve the problem they have created. Israel messed up whole Middle East and noone else. |
I agree,I mean looking at them as a superpower in the region they sure dont act like it,and then they go on and on about Iran and how they are a big threat to the region.:o |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by aNYthing
Sensible proposal... But that does not really address the minor fact that neither of the organizations like Al Queda, Hammas, Hizbolla, among myriads of others even want to have a place called "Israel" anywhere. |
That's a good question as that will be (is) the major reason why Israel is reluctant to do what I outlined above (well, it's the excuse they use). Hizballah lose their raisin d'etre as soon as the Golans and Shebaa a returned to Syria (or Lebanon). Most anti-Hizballah people on here will tell you Hizballah is used as a proxy by Syria in their war against Israel in order to regain control over the Golan Heights. Hizballah themselves have repeatedly stated they are a Lebanese defence force and will only disarm when Shebaa farms are "returned" to Lebanon. It's also likely Syria will make peace with Israel once the Golans are returned, meaning Hizballah might very well be out of the picture should point 4 of my list be checked off.
Al-Qaida can be discounted straight away as they have no presence in Palestine and despite being suspected of trying, Hamas and the PLO factions have rejected al-Qaida. Hamas (and Hizballah) follow a much more moderate version of Islam (as difficult as it might be for somebody to get their head round that statement!) and are, when all is said and done, localised terrorist groups with localised concerns.
Hamas might very well want to continue their campaign against Israel but Hamas pose no "existential threat" to Israel, no-one does in the region (bar a nuclear Iran, but that's a whole different thread!) as history has proven. Therefore, assuming Hamas does want to continue it's campaign, I covered that in point 7 - Israel can close it's borders with Palestine (and other nations) not allowing anyone in or out a la West Berlin, providing the international community create economic sustainability in Palestine and a "Channel Tunnel" is built between Gaza and West Bank
| quote: | | Assuming your proposal (which is not much different from many similar proposals put forth before) would pass, it would still not appease the aforementioned organizations. Furthermore, assuming that such initiative would take place, how confident do you feel about the safety of the Jews in this newly created country? Do you think that they would not be persecuted, executed, and otherwise allowed to exist. Remember, we're not talking about mentality change - as the feud that existed since biblical times would still remain. |
To be honest, I think they would be the victims of Palestinian hatred and driven out. I don't expect any to stay. But let's be fair: They're fundamentalist settlers who have acted with hatred to those who's land they occupy so, well, em (the sensible answer was they'll leave, btw!). As for the feud existing since Biblical terms, well, you're plain wrong. It's existed since Jews and Arabs started vying for the land of Palestine, around 100 years, but inflamed during the 1930s as Nazi Germany began persecuting Jews and they began to arrive in great numbers. Prior to that, Jews and Muslims have got on fine. During the Crusades, Muslims sheltered Jews from Christians. In fact, the "fundamentalists" you refer to above, and Islamism in general has much respect for Judaism and Christianity as fellow "people of the book" - this "feud" as you put it, is a relatively recent development
| quote: | | Furthermore, the land that's holly to Jews (and with all due respect was holly for about 4000 years before Islam), namely Jerusalem - would most likely be destroyed... do you really think that places of Jewish significance would be allowed to remain? just some thoughts out loud. |
Destroyed?! No idea why you would say that! And it's also holy to Christians so what about them? I don't think anything would be destroyed but under my proposal it wouldn't be part of Palestine, it would be under the joint control of Israel and Palestine |
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