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FAO Anti-Zionists. Serious question (pg. 4)
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
You still haven't addressed the three most fundamental issues -- |
I know this wasn't directed at me but I'm having fun in an Israel/Palestine thread that has made it 4 pages without descending into chaos!
| quote: | | 1. Right of return. |
Only to the West Bank and Gaza, not to Israel. They will be housed in evacuated Jewish settlements or in new "swanky" settlements built by the West and Israel
| quote: | | 2. Access to water. |
Palestine will have full control over its own energy resources but will be forbidden, by international agreement between Israel, Palestine, Jordan and Syria (who all have access to, rely on and can affect the water supply of the Jordan Valley) of doing anything to affect the water supply of the Jordan Valley
| quote: | | 3. The status of Jerusalem. |
Joint administrative district controlled jointly by Israel and Palestine (no settlement to be built by either side) |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
hmm isnt that a natural reaction? think about it,they have been bombed,killed,kicked out of their houses for many years,for them wanting to have revenge is a natural behaviour?you think they should just forget about the past and simply pretened nothing happend? |
Well, that's pretty much what they need to do, like the Spanish after Franco... |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by CHRles
First of all, you guys are dreaming if you think part of Jerusalem will ever go to the Palestinians. Not only will Israel so vehemently reject such a notion, but so will the Christian world. If anything, part of Jerusalem may be turned over to Jordan. |
Erm, Israel is Jewish, why would Christians be happy with Jews running it and not, erm, Palestinian Christians?! Anyway, it's a special city for all the faiths of the region so it should be jointly administered by both Israel and Palestine
| quote: | | Secondly, the right of return? Not going to happen. Facts are most of the palestinians who left their homes in 47/48 did so just prior to the war b/c neighboring Arab countries encouraged them to do so. The palestinians who left didn't want to take part in the war, ie defend their so called home, and figured they'd let the armies of their neighbors do their dirty work for them. Well, those armies LOST. Deal with it. |
"Deal with it"?! The man who asks us how we'd solve the Palestinian problem comes up with a solution that states "deal with it"?! LOL! Now THAT'S an idea that will work! No, what you meant to say was, and I'm paraphrasing here mind: "It is unrealistic that the millions of Palestinians in the diaspora should be resettled in Israel, and should therefore be resettled in a newly created Palestinian state, possibly compensated"
| quote: | Some palestinians stayed and also stayed out of the war, and they become known as Arab Israelis. Some palestinians stayed and fought, and they were the ones who were killed, but you all keep forgetting that a lot of Jewish Israelis died in the 1948 war as well.
What happened after 48? Egypt took control of the Gaza strip, but pretty much just ignored the Palestinian population. Jordan on the other hand, which got control of the West Bank, gave the Palestinians a Jordanian citizenship. In fact, the majority of the population of Jordan was already Palestinian prior to 48 - some Palestinians moved to Jordan in the 19th century, and a lot moved there around the 1920s for economic reasons.
So again, if you guys are just going to come up with simple solutions then here's another one - move the population of the Gaza Strip to the Sinai peninsula...which is a lot bigger then the entire state of Israel. |
"Move the population of the Gaza Strip to the Sinai peninsula" :wtf:
This is another one of your great solutions! Love it!
What you should have done is ask your question in the OP and then just read what ideas people came up with. You really shouldn't have tried to offer your own solutions now should ya?! LOL |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
If you are so against violence then how do you justify Isreali aggression over the last few decades? violence is what got them the land they now call "Israel" dont forget that. |
i don't justify it, and i never said i'm against violence; i think violence is appropriate in certain situation. i'm just more consistent with my principles and i don't think only one side has the right to resort to violence. i actually think we should just let the palestinians and israelis fight without any outside influence. many times the only way people learn is to be handed a severe ass kicking.
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
so for them not to live in fear means that have to take over Palestinian lands? |
you missed my point. living in NYC, i know alot of jews who have lived in israel or visit israel regularly. none that i have met hate palestinians or want to see palestinians suffer (although i admit i have never met an israeli 'settler' - i have no idea about their intentions). that's a very different sentiment than many palestinians and their supporters have for israelis. palestians suffering is not the intent of the israeli people, its the consequence of trying to ensure safety for israeli people. |
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| CHRles |
| quote: | Originally posted by CHRles
Hello people, this is the messiah. I have Jehovah here with me and we've come up with the BEST solution. It will actually be feasible very soon so hear this out:
Create two large man-made islands in the Mediterrenean. Cyprus is feeling lonely out there anyway. Both islands can be the size of modern day Israel, or better yet the size of biblical Israel (which included parts of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and prolly Egypt). The Jews will move to one of the islands, and the Palestinians to the other ones.
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Breaking news! Muhammad and Budha concur with the above statements. Jesus is a bit sad his hometown of Nazereth won't be populated anymore, but said he will not go against his father's wishes. He knows that his daddy likes to crucify him whenever they run into an argument.
As has been the case in older times, I see that you, the common people, prefer to ignore the words of a wise (?) prophet, who in this case happens to be yours truly. The prophet CHRles has spoken!
:D |
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| D-res |
If I had absolute unlimited pull, I'd convince the masses that religions are enslaving humanity more than uniting it. I'd eliminate the desert dogmas and any other major monotheisms and polytheisms (are there any left) and expose them for the fallacies they pedal as truth. Then once the riots and mass suicides die off, I'd push for humanity to move forward as a group of equals, where we'd focus on technological advancements and an elimination of illnesses - physical, mental and basic ignorance due to lack of proper education - with a strong emphasis on progression.
EDIT: I suppose this is more a solution to all (religious) conflict, not just the ones going on in the middle east |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by D-res
If I had absolute unlimited pull, I'd convince the masses that religions are enslaving humanity more than uniting it. I'd eliminate the desert dogmas and any other major monotheisms and polytheisms (are there any left) and expose them for the fallacies they pedal as truth. Then once the riots and mass suicides die off, I'd push for humanity to move forward as a group of equals, where we'd focus on technological advancements and an elimination of illnesses - physical, mental and basic ignorance due to lack of proper education - with a strong emphasis on progression.
EDIT: I suppose this is more a solution to all (religious) conflict, not just the ones going on in the middle east |
Already been tried...
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| D-res |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Already been tried...
[img]http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2007/08/08/hitler460.jpg[img]
[img]http://www.dictatorofthemonth.com/Mao/mao_main.jpg[img]
[img]http://clapso.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/stalin_color555.jpg[img] |
I'm not sure whether to chuckle or be offended. I'm more than sure that what I outlined is a far cry from the type of world any of the above were trying to accomplish. |
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| Zild |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
actually I had to go...
either that or off to prison for a few assault charges...
a few skins met my wrath....at a race riot at Surfside Beach many moons ago....a very stupid mistake that I kind of wish I could do over...
army was a little gruntish and marines had nothing to offer..
at least in the navy I went into the Advance Electronics but ended up striking on the USS Miami(SSN-755)...
long story and very long time ago :(
and actually no one has ever had the balls to laugh at me Zild.... not in a condescending way at least ;)
in my face... |
I wasn't being condescending just making a joke about the Navy. But yeah I would definitely laugh at you towards your face. I think we are about the same size, and I'm armed to the teeth with a penchant for violence. Just ask your friend Shoalin. Although I don't really see any reason for me to kill you as I think you're OK. |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
I wasn't being condescending just making a joke about the Navy. But yeah I would definitely laugh at you towards your face. I think we are about the same size, and I'm armed to the teeth with a penchant for violence. Just ask your friend Shoalin. Although I don't really see any reason for me to kill you as I think you're OK. |
:)
well in my present condition I think a 9year old lil girl could kick my ass....
walking pneumonia sucks!!
I have been cooked up in my house all week and it really sucks....
can't breath, can't smoke and my woman is sad cause I can't ... well focking takes allot of 02 and well... :( |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by
D-res
I'm not sure whether to chuckle or be offended. I'm more than sure that what I outlined is a far cry from the type of world any of the above were trying to accomplish. |
You said, "I'd eliminate the desert dogmas and any other major monotheisms and polytheisms (are there any left) and expose them for the fallacies they pedal as truth."
You think this hasn't been tried before???:conf: :haha: :conf:
I wonder what D-res's gulag/re-education camps might look like...:p :p |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
1. I said the refugees should be compensated.
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Compensation how? Palestinians won't accept payment - they won't accept anything short of full access to returning to their homes. They might not actually move back, but it's that fundamental right that they demand, and the principle of the thing has bogged down negotiations for the past sixty years.
Palestine won't agree to anything that doesn't include the right to return, and Israel will certainly never consider granting it due to demographic concerns.
| quote: | | 2. Withdrawal of Israel settlements would give Palestinians access to their aquifers as the settlements are strategically placed to control the aquifer system of the West Bank. |
Aquifers aren't the biggest issue here - but do you really think Israel would simply cede control of the region's largest water supply, setting the stage for Syria and/or Palestine to cut off Israel's access? That's like handing someone a pair of scissors and pulling down your pants.
| quote: | | 3. Jerusalem would be divided between east and west. |
Never going to happen. Demarcation between East and West has fueled the intifadas in the past. Who gets the religious sites? The Temple on the Mount and the Dome of the Rock are in the exact same spot. You don't think ownership of that real estate is contentious enough to cause a war on its own?
If you think the oppression of Palestinians or suicide bombings are the main issues here you are sorely mistaken. |
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