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So now Toronto's brilliant mayor wants to tear down the Gardiner (pg. 10)
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| zoogla |
| ^whatever, I told you so too! :p |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by gummybear
heard a news report that the studies done by the city have concluded that the delay will be about 2 minutes..the studies were conducted by impartial traffic experts who have validated the city's findings.. |
The EA hasn't even started yet. Whatever figure you heard did not come from any study conducted by any experts - it was probably some lazy reporter quoting from Miller's cronies several weeks ago. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by gummybear
heard a news report that the studies done by the city have concluded that the delay will be about 2 minutes..the studies were conducted by impartial traffic experts who have validated the city's findings..
during the report on am640...i heard words like "fear mongers" and "underused" ...not like i'm having an "i told you so" moment or anything..:) |
two minutes...
what they didnt tell you is that this is with all green lights and minimal traffic. Just the speed reduction of 30 kmh from 90 to 60 would account for more than 2 minutes as far as i can tell.
Ridiculous.
What a progressive city:whip: :rolleyes: |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
two minutes...
what they didnt tell you is that this is with all green lights and minimal traffic. Just the speed reduction of 30 kmh from 90 to 60 would account for more than 2 minutes as far as i can tell.
Ridiculous.
What a progressive city:whip: :rolleyes: |
one red light will add 1.5-2 minutes to your drive. |
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| MarkT |
not formal EA study, but I think it's safe to refer to these folks as 'experts' on the subject...or at least having far more educated opinions than anyone here ;)
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/ca....html?id=578061
| quote: |
Board to unveil traffic reports on Gardiner
Waterfront Toronto; Experts predict longer delays if amputation occurs
Allison Hanes, National Post
Published: Wednesday, June 11, 2008
Waterfront Toronto will tomorrow unveil the traffic studies backing up its claim that removing the easternmost portion of the Gardiner will only minimally slow traffic, even as some experts are predicting slightly longer delays.
When the plan was revealed last month, officials said dismantling the elevated expressway east of Jarvis Street in favour of an eight-lane boulevard would cost drivers only two minutes. "From my perspective that's two minutes for a great city," Mayor David Miller told reporters.
At the time, no studies were released to bolster the claim, or explain how traffic will respond to the addition of several new stop lights.
Tomorrow, Waterfront Toronto's board gets a more fulsome report on the implications of the estimated $300-million, eight-year endeavour, aimed at allowing for development of the eastern downtown waterfront.
In interviews, traffic experts said the two-minute estimate may not be accurate for all motorists.
Jim Mars, a professor of urban planning at Ryerson University, said he thinks people who use the Gardiner to access the Don Valley Parkway or vice versa will be hardest hit by the proposed overhaul--although he said has not seen any detailed analyses.
"If it's two minutes for the other people, it will be four minutes for them in terms of lost time, because I think that two minutes is calculated as if you're a person on the surface of Jarvis and you want to go up the parkway," he said. "So you have to go three streets on the surface and eventually get to a ramp. Right now you can get immediately on to a ramp and you're on the expressway and you avoid between two and three lights."
John Campbell, the president and chief executive of Waterfront Toronto, said only about 15% of the 200,000 drivers who flow in to the city from the west and 120,000 who enter from the east each day travel straight through from the Gardiner to the DVP.
Mr. Campbell called the section between the Gardiner and DVP "underutilized" and said there is actually "too much road capacity."
He said traffic-impact studies show the change will only slow speeds by about 12% during peak hours.
Eric Miller, a civil engineering professor at the University of Toronto and one of the country's foremost experts on transportation planning, said it is theoretically possible that an arterial boulevard could replace an expressway with minimal disruption.
"If you compare how that might function at rush hour versus how the Gardiner functions now at rush hour with everyone creeping and crawling along, a well-regulated arterial system, which meters the traffic and controls it, may not introduce much in the way of additional delay."
Prof. Miller, who also has not seen the traffic studies, said the Gardiner's on-and off-ramps, which require cars entering and exiting to weave in a basket pattern, already create bottlenecks that slow traffic. So a series of stop lights might not be much worse during peak hours.
But outside of rush hour it's a different story. "Conceivably it might have a larger impact off peak, but you're talking about a much lower base travel time, so if it's five minutes does it really matter?" Prof. Miller said. "And it may not be five minutes, I don't know. If the lights are coordinated properly, there's no reason you won't flow through it at a reasonable speed most of the time."
Prof. Mars said that if any city has the expertise to figure out how to replace a highway with an eight-lane boulevard without wreaking traffic havoc, it's Toronto.
"Toronto runs on arterial roads mainly. We have a good system and one of the first and best traffic light control systems in the world," he said. "We get the most out of our arterials. So if any city can manage this partial transition from expressways to arterials, I think we can. But it will be slower. There's no question."
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
one red light will add 1.5-2 minutes to your drive. |
Unless the intersection is backed up and you have to wait for 2 or 3 cycles. Happens all the time, particularly near highway on- and off-ramps.
Also don't forget the time added by traveling a longer distance at a slower speed.
12% doesn't sound totally unrealistic, but that article doesn't say where traffic is expected to slow by that amount. It still appears to me that people are only paying attention to what's going to happen to the DVP/Gardiner, and not looking at the effect of heavier traffic on the city roads.
I also realize that Miller is a common last name, but I can't help wonder if this Eric Miller is in some way related to David Miller. |
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| gummybear |
thanks for posting that..i usually don't quote fluff reporting..:) |
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| MarkT |
I figured I'd try to find some evidence to back up what you heard on the radio.
it may not be hard evidence and I'm not one to make some improper appeals to authority...but as we await formal studies, the opinion of a prof of urban planning carries a little more weight in my eyes than the opinions expressed here by us :P |
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| Stilez |
| hehe... I know prof. Mars :p |
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| malek |
so if I understand this project, at some point, you'll be forced to get off the highway, wait for a light, then take back the highway?
terrible |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
so if I understand this project, at some point, you'll be forced to get off the highway, wait for a light, then take back the highway?
terrible |
meh, taking the 20 into Montreal isn't THAT bad :rolleyes: |
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| dEsidEL |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
two minutes...
what they didnt tell you is that this is with all green lights and minimal traffic. Just the speed reduction of 30 kmh from 90 to 60 would account for more than 2 minutes as far as i can tell.
Ridiculous.
What a progressive city:whip: :rolleyes: |
unrelated, but just when I think we're too much of a nanny state, idiots like this try and prove me wrong..
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/st...it.html?ref=rss
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