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"Taste is subjective"
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
Anyone else feel like that this phrase is used way too often by people who want to end conversations, nullify any criticism of music or musical taste, and excuse their own musical narrowness and ignorance by sighing "oh well, it's all subjective anyway"?
More and more I'm coming to see this phrase as a copout. Half the time, my impression isn't that the person saying it has given a lot of thought to aesthetics or issues of musical criticism, but just wants to reel it off to defuse any attacks on their own musical choices.
Anyway. Let's assume that taste is subjective.
There are still lots of things that aren't subjective.
There are the notes and instruments that a track uses. There are the synthesis methods and techniques used. There's the arrangement of the track. There are historical and contextual considerations about whether the producer is doing something new or original or just adding one more basically undistinctive drop in the ocean of a style that already has many thousands of entrants.
These are all things that can be discussed with some degree of objectivity, and IMO they are also things that go toward informing a lot of people's taste.
Thoughts? |
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| Az |
| you got it nailed on. Usually a copout for people with taste I find |
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| miamitranceman |
| Yeah but there's still that final step of how each individual person's mind interprets the combination of different sounds/synths, etc. Because of that aspect, I think one could always argue it's subjective. |
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| Az |
| you could argue some peoples brains are just plain wrong. |
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| miamitranceman |
| quote: | Originally posted by Az
you could argue some peoples brains are just plain wrong. |
Haha, I suppose, but it sort of undoes the whole idea of a right to a personal opinion doesn't it. |
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| Az |
| quote: | Originally posted by miamitranceman
Haha, I suppose, but it sort of undoes the whole idea of a right to a personal opinion doesn't it. |
perfect :) |
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| david.michael |
| quote: | Originally posted by miamitranceman
Yeah but there's still that final step of how each individual person's mind interprets the combination of different sounds/synths, etc. Because of that aspect, I think one could always argue it's subjective. |
Exactly. Whether a cop-out or not, they're right. All of those objective elements can be argued subjectively based on how an individual interprets them.
That doesn't mean "don't discuss music". I personally value people's musical opinions that differ from mine, especially ones that discuss "objective" elements. Often, it gives me a new perspective on the music itself and I start to hear/enjoy it a different way. Not all people are as open minded, however. |
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| Zoso |
I would try to use it not as a cop out for underanalzying my own tastes, but perhaps as a way to avoid a needless confrontation with someone over a specific style or track, even.
Now, generally speaking and at a high level, I think nearly everyone could agree that certain elements in any given track sound pleasant whereas other elements might not. For example, I think we could all agree that some 2 year old banging away randomly on a piano would not sound pleasant.
But as you delve down into the finer points, I think things perhaps DO become more subjective (e.g., a particular hi hat or kick would have sounded better in this track in MY opinion, etc.).
Make any sense, or am I full of e? |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
I don't know if most people are really as open-minded and relativistic as they like to make themselves seem.
If someone won't give the time of day to any music other than Britney Spears, and proclaims Britney Spears the best musician ever, wouldn't you say that person has bad taste? Or at least is profoundly ignorant and limited in some way? |
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| noikeee |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Anyone else feel like that this phrase is used way too often by people who want to end conversations, nullify any criticism of music or musical taste, and excuse their own musical narrowness and ignorance by sighing "oh well, it's all subjective anyway"?
More and more I'm coming to see this phrase as a copout. Half the time, my impression isn't that the person saying it has given a lot of thought to aesthetics or issues of musical criticism, but just wants to reel it off to defuse any attacks on their own musical choices.
Anyway. Let's assume that taste is subjective.
There are still lots of things that aren't subjective.
There are the notes and instruments that a track uses. There are the synthesis methods and techniques used. There's the arrangement of the track. There are historical and contextual considerations about whether the producer is doing something new or original or just adding one more basically undistinctive drop in the ocean of a style that already has many thousands of entrants.
These are all things that can be discussed with some degree of objectivity, and IMO they are also things that go toward informing a lot of people's taste.
Thoughts? |
Your opinion about tastes is subjective. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by noikeee
Your opinion about tastes is subjective. |
Of course! :rolleyes:
Don't actually disagree in any substantive way, just bring out the big secret weapon, the word "subjective," and all conversation and argument is rendered inconsequential.
Right? |
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| Zoso |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
I don't know if most people are really as open-minded and relativistic as they like to make themselves seem.
If someone won't give the time of day to any music other than Britney Spears, and proclaims Britney Spears the best musician ever, wouldn't you say that person has bad taste? Or at least is profoundly ignorant and limited in some way? |
I might agree if your statement "won't give the time of day to any music other than" holds fast and true. Though I would favor "limited" over "ignorant," as to me, personally, the term ignorant implies a level of stupidity.
Now, on the flip side, if someone has given other genres a full, genuine attempt and comes back to "omg pop 4 evar," then I would have to respect his or her decision.
I personally enjoy lots of music, from the Doors to Zeppelin to Floyd to Lucinda Williams to cliche 80s. But I gravitate back to trance and progressive 95% of the time because it's what I prefer. I don't feel "limited" though, as I have listened to many genres. |
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