that is dub techno. atmospheric is too vague of a descriptor. lots of genres can create an atmosphere and be described as atmospheric. dub was always about being stripped down of vocals or any unnecessary ornamentation and be echoey and reverby, forget that it started with lee scratch perry, it doesnt have to have typical reggae instrumentation to be "dub". the idea that was applied to reggae was applied to techno and you get basic channel and like that which sounds exactly like your example above. i googled and i cant find anything anywhere that has the words "atmospheric" and "techno" next to each other except in articles used to describe some release or artist or whatever. where can you find a site that sells music that categorizes music as atmospheric techno? i do not see this category anywhere.
nefardec
hardwax.de to start ;)
run by the group of people who practically invented dub techno
this is dub techno - listen to the roots/dub influence. it's not just about space. if it's only about space i would call it atmospheric. if it has the roots influence, then it's dub. I mean in reality the line is not so clear, but I don't think enough people give the jamaicans credit for what they've done :)
hey this is music discussion, right? this is my obsession, after all.
PETRAN
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
hardwax.de to start ;)
run by the group of people who practically invented dub techno
this is dub techno - listen to the roots/dub influence. it's not just about space. if it's only about space i would call it atmospheric. if it has the roots influence, then it's dub. I mean in reality the line is not so clear, but I don't think enough people give the jamaicans credit for what they've done :)
Nefardec, its ok to use "progressive" and "Atmospheric" as a more precise way to describe, but these so-called techno-genres don't really exist. There never was/is a genre called "progressive-techno", or "prog-techno" or "prog-no" or whatever, and neither is "atmospheric techno". Some artists in the 90s would get the label "Intelligent techno", more specifically the Warp/AI stuff and the related like the Black Dog, Plastikman, LFO, Aphex Twin, B12, The Orb etc. a term which eventually morphed to "IDM".
In Techno there are just two big schools really, the deep/dub stuff (encompassing everything for the more melodic/soulful/deep stuff of Detroit-minded artists like Carl Craig to deeper and dubbyer Basic Channel stuff.) and the Schranz/Banging stuff (of many German and Swedish artists). Now lately we get the more glitchier/clicky minimal stuff and some pseudo-retro electro influences. There is always the classic "Intelligent" influence and the "ghost of warp" still lives within some modern techno producers (like Lawrence). Between these influences you get everything, there is no strict categorisation between each artist because every artists does his/her own thing. One can make completely abstract/intelligent stuff on top of a slow bit, other can do more dub, other can do banging with some melody, other can do more Detroit-type futuristic melodic stuff, others do more glitchier stuff etc. It would be a bit useless to try to categorise every small difference into a new genre.
All the stuff you posted just sound like "deep/dub" techno really. Now its obvious that each artist will have his/her own sound but IMO they easily fall within the same category. I mean its useless and unecessary to categorise Rhythm and Sound and Vainqueur as belonging to different genres. Its all Deep-Dub techno really, now ofcourse some artist would like more pads other would like it more stripped.Sometimes you will even get difference between the tunes of the same artist (actually many times). What is this? "Dub-techno" or "atmospheric" techno? (great tune by the way)
Its all the same IMO.
nefardec
not sure i really agree with your oversimplified bipartite division of techno :p
i guess you can basically divide it between detroit-centric and eurocentric, but there are so many blurred boundaries and cross fertilizations
i'm not trying to pass these off as 'genres' per se, but rather more for the sake of talking about music, and a specific kind of music, the more 'specific' you actually get, the more these terms become important. they're just descriptions. and i don't think it's right to pass everything spacey off as 'dub'. it's an issue of semantics. dub has a cultural heritage and i think it's almost (is) colonialist not to recognize that.
you say it's useless, but I kind of have to distinguish because of the way I categorize my music for deejaying and also to conceptualize it when I play the records. obviously it doesn't matter for you, but i'm sure someone would care.
you're right that there is a lot of crossover, but I never would categorize artists, only their works individually.
The track you posted is straight up atmospheric/space techno though, I don't hear any dub in there at all. straight as an arrow. beautiful track though
boomkat even has a term they use called 'chain reaction techno' lol
sven weisemann is a perfect example. it's a spacey techno where all of the samples are triggered as chain reactions that create rhythmic swelling
i'm not making this stuff up though. i mean go to hard wax and talk to the guys who run the shop! look at some of the descriptions on their website lol:
quote:
Detroit rooted dub techno
Ultra heavy & industrial/ noisy atmospheric techno
the edge of instrumental grime
atmospheric tripping house
somewhere in between industrial, electronic drones & Pan Sonic-esque techno
classic Chain Reaction techno
Crafty UK garage
eternal Detroit techno
timeless basic house
mesmerizing killer house
raw & heavy techno
reggae infected dubstep
eternal blueprint UK acid
Advanced abstract minimalist Detroit techno
acidic crafty techno
Superb Detroit deep house
Dubstep related post-IDM electronica - BEST ONE LOL!!
Carl Craig alike smart tech house rave - or maybe this lol
Chordish mesmerising techno
Proper techno
god i love that store. i can read the descriptions and know exactly what they are talking about lol. they use the descriptors over and over again and it becomes a sort of underground language
bottom line is the genre is techno, pure and simple.
diggerz
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
i'm not making this stuff up though. i mean go to hard wax and talk to the guys who run the shop! look at some of the descriptions on their website lol:
there's just something digital stores can't capture, and i think it's that friendly welcoming vibe of a good record store that knows it's customers.
i mean, there's no use in putting a thousand records under the minimal genre when they really aren't. the same goes for much of the 'house' and 'tech house' sub-genres.
PETRAN
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
not sure i really agree with your oversimplified bipartite division of techno :p
i guess you can basically divide it between detroit-centric and eurocentric, but there are so many blurred boundaries and cross fertilizations
i'm not trying to pass these off as 'genres' per se, but rather more for the sake of talking about music, and a specific kind of music, the more 'specific' you actually get, the more these terms become important. they're just descriptions. and i don't think it's right to pass everything spacey off as 'dub'. it's an issue of semantics. dub has a cultural heritage and i think it's almost (is) colonialist not to recognize that.
you say it's useless, but I kind of have to distinguish because of the way I categorize my music for deejaying and also to conceptualize it when I play the records. obviously it doesn't matter for you, but i'm sure someone would care.
you're right that there is a lot of crossover, but I never would categorize artists, only their works individually.
The track you posted is straight up atmospheric/space techno though, I don't hear any dub in there at all. straight as an arrow. beautiful track though
boomkat even has a term they use called 'chain reaction techno' lol
sven weisemann is a perfect example. it's a spacey techno where all of the samples are triggered as chain reactions that create rhythmic swelling
i'm not making this stuff up though. i mean go to hard wax and talk to the guys who run the shop! look at some of the descriptions on their website lol:
god i love that store. i can read the descriptions and know exactly what they are talking about lol. they use the descriptors over and over again and it becomes a sort of underground language
bottom line is the genre is techno, pure and simple.
I think i'll just agree with your last-line there :p
I don't get what we mean by "dub" though. "Dub" was more like a technique or rather a set of techniques which altered music/sound and these alterations were proven to be popular to a certain crowd, leading to a seperate genre (that 70s sub-genre of reggae with King Tubby and stuff).
Dub was about taking reggae records and distorting them in all sorts of ways, usually adding lots of echo, reverb and delay, giving the reggae style a slower, fatter, deeper, trippier character, creating a sense of space. Vocals were usually eliminated or distorted.
Now, IMO, when we talk about "dub-techno" or "dubstep" whe don't mean that there are going to be heavily distorted (in the "dub" style) reggae influences, but heavily distorted (in the "dub" style) techno or garage. Thats why everyone calls Chain Reaction and Basic Channel "dub-techno" and thats why there are no really reggae influences in Burial's "Untrue" album (despite it being "dubstep"). Its just happened that Rhythm and Sound have incorporated influences of the original "dub (reggae)" style sound, adding to the confusion. But thats just the specific artist's choice (and a few others maybe) not just a seperate "dubbed-dub" genre. Just my two cents :p
I really like those crazy descriptions lol.
DOOMBOT
Nice progressive track. Based on the sample I would probably buy this.
