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Are there many talented trance producers about these days ? (pg. 2)
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| Zombie0729 |
you use the term producer... which in our field means freakin everything(ie musician, engineer, song writer, lyric writer, mastering engineer, keyboard player, guitar, drums, bass, etc). so you're basically asking about 1 part of what it takes to be a great producer in todays EDM. while i think you are leaning on the most important part (the musicianship) i think the ability of someones finger technique or hand playing ability is a niave comment.
i also studied music in college and if you think back 50yrs ago, people all had to go thru rigurous pratice to be decent with their instruments. well fortunatly and unfortunatly we have A LOT more instruments today and learning the proper fingering/hand/whatever is entirely cumbersome. more and more instruments from obscure parts of the world are coming into todays music and while its great if you're one of those players like a sitar player it really leaves you out of the picture for many other projects. knowing music theory is essential but as far as ones ability to play... well, i know it will do wonders for your music but is it necessary? i think it's debatable |
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| Jimb0b |
You do make an interesting point, and I pretty much agree with you, but under the same breath find it a little sad that songs may be considered as part of a jigsaw to make up a dj set, rather than being able to just stand up on thier own and be counted.
I agree that it may not be fair to compare modern day trance to more contempary music, as they maybe have different goals (ie trance will primarilly be heard as part of a set in a club), but I still do think that if a producer has the talent to make a song with just a select few instruments rather than a plathora of instruements, that gives them the talent to be able to work a track that has some good content.
For example you may have a more traditional song which has piano, bass and guitar that all play along with one another, and I think that if you have the skill / knowledge of how to do this, then you can transfer these skills to a trance song and use your knowledge to say make some really neat percussion that all play along nicely with each other because you know how to make sounds work together and how to set a good groove going.
Im not very good at putting my thoughts into words, so you'll have to bear with me! :D |
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| Jimb0b |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0729
you use the term producer... which in our field means freakin everything(ie musician, engineer, song writer, lyric writer, mastering engineer, keyboard player, guitar, drums, bass, etc). so you're basically asking about 1 part of what it takes to be a great producer in todays EDM. while i think you are leaning on the most important part (the musicianship) i think the ability of someones finger technique or hand playing ability is a niave comment.
i also studied music in college and if you think back 50yrs ago, people all had to go thru rigurous pratice to be decent with their instruments. well fortunatly and unfortunatly we have A LOT more instruments today and learning the proper fingering/hand/whatever is entirely cumbersome. more and more instruments from obscure parts of the world are coming into todays music and while its great if you're one of those players like a sitar player it really leaves you out of the picture for many other projects. knowing music theory is essential but as far as ones ability to play... well, i know it will do wonders for your music but is it necessary? i think it's debatable |
Yes maybe my use of the word "producer" is a bit open-ended, I suppose I am talking more about the actual being able to write a good tune / groove, something that will make you want to move, or something that leave a good melody in your head. |
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| Jimb0b |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric J
While I do not necessarily disagree with this point of view, I also think that this assumes that a good dance track requires a good melody. For me this is not always the case. The point of dance music, at its core, is to make you want to "dance". SO a track that has very little melody but an outstanding groove and movement is just as good for me than a cleverly programmed melody. I think many people who listen to only trance kind of forget this point. There are loads of good tracks that have very little melody at all, but their ability to move butts on the dance floor is what makes it a good track.
The ability to program a good "groove" is just as important in dance music as one's ability to write a good melody, and some people would argue that it is even more important. |
I may not of expressed myself too well, as I do agree with what you are saying, as you do get some tracks which have minimal content but are still a joy to listen to, becuase the producer / writer knows how to make sounds play along with one another. |
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| Fledz |
| Having formal education in music theory or being able to play an instrument is absolutely not a requirement at all in EDM. Many producers have proven that. If you make a mistake, you can easily fix it. Not something that can be done with live instruments in other genres. |
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| zodiac9 |
| Trance doesn't attract a lot of talented musicians/composers nowadays, because there's no real payoff. No monetary payoff that is, for producing. If you DJ you can make some money, but I think most musicians would rather play an instrument when they play live. To get talented musicians/composers to dedicate themselves to a style of music, there has to be a payoff, otherwise it's not worth it. Talent these days is going to pop, Indie rock, hip hop, and country. I still run across progressive house and trance tunes that impress me. I sometimes wonder if these are professional musicians doing EDM on the side. |
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| derail |
I'm primarily with you, Jimb0b.
I love melodies - whether it's pop, rock, classical, hiphop or whatever. A hundred years from now, people will likely still be playing songs like "Fur Elise", or some Beatles songs. I'm not sure that a song without a melody will last that long. Styles change, production techniques change...
I also love songs that have ultra-danceable rhythms/ grooves. That's an art in itself, creating a piece that makes people move.
Ideally, a song would have both (plus good sounds, mixing etc etc).
Some people prefer good melodies, others aren't that fussed. If you're into good melodies, you'd be better off looking primarily at other styles though. Good trance has excellent futuristic sounds, extremely effective chord progressions, danceable grooves, but a lot of other styles deliver stronger, more catchy melodies. |
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| -FSP- |
First I would like to say that I totally agree with cryophonik's post
Next...
I would say that trance doesn't attract much talent period. Let's face it, a lot of people don't want to be part of a somewhat faceless genre.
I personally think that it's not that tarnce is getting bad talent, it's just that trends change and the trend that is out is trance and what's in is house, and techy sounds. |
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| lowski |
i agree with eric j , nicely said.
i used to play guitar,bass, and drums and write rock songs. i didnt find it nearly as tough to learn. another thing is i didnt need to sit there for hours trying to make my basslines fit properly with my kicks. i think writing rock songs can be alot easier in some ways becuase all you really need to do is just compose a song and write some lyrics(lyrics where always the hardest part for me). on top of that most people only play one instrument. not trying to take anything away from rock musicians but; when you write edm you have to do everything from composition to mastering(or eqing and making a proper mix down anyway). but i do agree there is definatly some very clever muisc in the 70' and 80's for that matter |
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| davidbuhau |
uhhh...this is silly... who cares if dude can write a song on the piano? seriously... i mean, if people like the music they like it, if people don't they don't. i take criticism from other producers/musicians with a grain of salt. those who i am really interested in feedback from are the music fans. if it fills the dancefloor, but some stuck up "music-nerd" doesn't like it, oh well, sucks to the the "music-nerd" as this person was unable to enjoy the music the same way other people do.
it's like eggplant... i don't like eggplant, but i'd be happier if i did like it, cuz i see other people deriving great pleasure from eating it.
david |
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| Jimb0b |
| quote: | Originally posted by -FSP-
First I would like to say that I totally agree with cryophonik's post
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I think it's a double edged sword. On the one hand, yes it's great that more people have access to make music, on the other hand I think that it is also what saturates genre's with crap music, and that is not a good thing as far as im concerned. Pretty much anything can get into the mainstream these days and there's no real quality control as such, anyone can say "thats good enough" and not have any passion for it, and release it. Some may argue that this is a good thing, I personally dont as for about every 1 good track there's probablly 100 crap ones!
With regards to my comment about being able to just make a tune with say a piano, bass & strings, im not actually meaning being able to physically play them, im just saying if you was in front on your sequencer of choice with those select few instruments, would you be able to come up with a song?, rather than just filling up your track with a limitless amount of sounds.
I just feel that if you have the abillity to do that, that gives you a good foundation on which to expand your skill into making trance music. You would be able to get your sounds to interact with one another better, make a good groove or come up with a good melody.
A lot of tracks I hear just tend to be your kick, add a little percussion, throw in a standard bassline some repeating melody which makes use of the filters for a little variation and thats pretty much it.
Maybe im just getting old! lol, but it's been so long since I actually heard a trance / dance track that actually gets me excited that im starting to loose faith! haha |
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| Storyteller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jimb0b
I think it's a double edged sword. On the one hand, yes it's great that more people have access to make music, on the other hand I think that it is also what saturates genre's with crap music, and that is not a good thing as far as im concerned. Pretty much anything can get into the mainstream these days and there's no real quality control as such, anyone can say "thats good enough" and not have any passion for it, and release it. Some may argue that this is a good thing, I personally dont as for about every 1 good track there's probablly 100 crap ones! |
I don't think it's the availability of software that's the problem. It's the labels. You can run a label at 0 cost these days. Every nitwit without any knowledge runs a label. I could name a list with tons of labels that constantly release sub-par tracks. And then I'm not referring to musical content, purely the mix quality. A lot of tracks just sound horrible and still get put out somehow. :( |
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