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What to say, when you get the "edm has no emotion/is all just crappy stuf to dance to (pg. 5)
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| PETRAN |
I'll have to admit though that when "i come back" to listen to EDM (because i don't listen to a lot of EDM these days) its probably gonna be older trance and progressive house tracks lol. Like from the original version of Cygnus-X - "Superstring" and Orbital's "Halcyon+On+On" to '99 and even some post-00s stuff like Insigma- "Open Your Eyes" or Free Radical- "Surreal". :clown:
I do enjoy listening to new deep 'n' techy-house sets and stuff, but i don't care about the individual tracks at all, i just like the overall flow and the mood it/they create(s).
The tunes which tend to be remembered IMO are the ones that have a strong main melodic theme or hook or something. Like the classic Chicago and Detroit stuff (or even the disco stuff from the 70s)-i think that people remember them because of their legendary loops, short melodies and hooks (and ofcourse the 90s progressive house and trance stuff...). I think that the higher the thematic content (at least up to a certain point in which complexity has an opossite effect), the higher the subjective "value" of the track, with higher attention, enjoyment and memory occuring for tracks with intermediate ("hooky", "catchy") thematic elaboration.
This theory would imply (and predict) that the countless modern house, techno/minimal and trance stuff (+ a lot of modern pop, hip-hop, r'n'b and mainstream rock etc.) have no future or whatsoever (because they are highly disposable due to their low, poor quality or absent thematic content)
But thats not necessarily a bad think-e.g. i guess that the purpose of a deep and hypnotic techno track is not to be remembered as a legendary work of art, but to "work" within a specific context-e.g. to work on a specific time at a specific environment. In this way, it can certainly "work" miracles (especially if there is some E involved?lol...), even with its phenomenally small and isolated influence. |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by PETRAN
But thats not necessarily a bad think-i guess that the purpose of a deep and hypnotic techno track is not to be remembered as a legendary work of art, but to "work" within a specific context-e.g. to work on a specific time at a specific environment. In this way, it can certainly "work" miracles (especially if there is some E involved?lol...), even in it phenomenally small and isolated influence. |
yep! that's what I was trying to say before
there is a difference between the kind of 'music' that results from rhythmic drumming and hypnotic patterns and the kind of 'music' that results from the lyrical tradition (which is more connected to drama and oral tradition than to dance)
it's like african drumming versus anglo-saxon ballad
two completely different things, but both ultimately and equally rooted in mystical experience in man's earliest days
now you can argue about the complexity and the lack of cultural context |
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| PETRAN |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
yep! that's what I was trying to say before
there is a difference between the kind of 'music' that results from rhythmic drumming and hypnotic patterns and the kind of 'music' that results from the lyrical tradition (which is more connected to drama and oral tradition than to dance)
it's like african drumming versus anglo-saxon ballad
two completely different things, but both ultimately and equally rooted in mystical experience in man's earliest days
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+1
Now would you say that the one is somehow of "higher quality" than the other? Many people would tend to directly correlate music's temporal durability (?) with quality but is this correct? In the end of the day i guess that beauty is in the eye of the beholder (and only for a few moments) and "quality" (which is a problematic term/measure in itself) doesn't matter. Ofcourse this would imply that people listening to whatever should NOT receive any flamming for their taste.
:p |
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| Beat Blog |
| quote: | Originally posted by PETRAN
+1
Now would you say that the one is somehow of "higher quality" than the other? Many people would tend to directly correlate music's temporal durability (?) with quality but is this correct? In the end of the day i guess that beauty is in the eye of the beholder (and only for a few moments) and "quality" (which is a problematic term/measure in itself) doesn't matter. Ofcourse this would imply that people listening to whatever should NOT receive any flamming for their taste.
:p |
A lot of people tend not to make the distinction between a bad track that they like, and a good track that they like. I do.
To use a movie analogy...Billy Madison is a ing stupid movie of poor quality, yet I love it.
Conversely, something like American Beauty or Babel, even though people might not like them, they should be able to realise them for what they are: movies with artistic integrity and deep thought put into them.
It seems strange to me that most people can't make the same connection with music. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
You're far too concerned with process, nefardec. It reminds me of the time you put forward your proposal for an organic computerised way of making music that would revolutionise electronic music, even though you didn't have a clue what that might sound like.
That dance music has certain limitations set upon it for practical reasons (although one of the reasons I like older dance music is because it didn't realise it had limitations) doesn't in any way mean it can't be as good as any other form of music. Rigid form does not mean anything inherently- many forms of art have strict forms and it's about how the artist works within those confines that matters. |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
You're far too concerned with process, nefardec. |
it's this damn architectural education
at the end of the day, though, i'm a sensualist |
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| wotyzoid |
| quote: | | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J doesn't in any way mean it can't be as good as any other form of music. |
I like this. I think it's more of a "shades of gray kind of thing" and being literal about it doesn't seem very bright. |
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| nefardec |
funny thing is, today I had a lecture on this seminal architectural manifesto called "Contrasts" by Augustus Pugin. He basically tries to bitch about 'contemporary' (ie 1840s) architecture by juxtaposing images of utopic medieval scenes with their supposed industrial age counterparts, as a way of saying, look at how ty the world has gotten because the architecture is ty. i feel like this is a similar discussion - in all the arts there is always this kind of 'aura' that stems from physicality and manual skill that is highly prized compared to machine output.
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| wotyzoid |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
funny thing is, today I had a lecture on this seminal architectural manifesto called "Contrasts" by Augustus Pugin. He basically tries to bitch about 'contemporary' (ie 1840s) architecture by juxtaposing images of utopic medieval scenes with their supposed industrial age counterparts, as a way of saying, look at how ty the world has gotten because the architecture is ty. i feel like this is a similar discussion - in all the arts there is always this kind of 'aura' that stems from physicality and manual skill that is highly prized compared to machine output.
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I like this. :)
Anyway, so what is the point here? Are you saying that this higher praise for the manual aspect of things is well deserved or not? Does it influence you in your musical judgment at all? I can understand it but completely writing off all EDM assuming it lacks cultural, intellectual, or artistic value for the simple reason that it wasn't made with a guitar isn't really just, is it? |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by wotyzoid
I can understand it but completely writing off all EDM assuming it lacks cultural, intellectual, or artistic value for the simple reason that it wasn't made with a guitar isn't really just, is it? |
surely you're addressing someone else, because I have said nothing like that. |
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| wotyzoid |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
surely you're addressing someone else, because I have said nothing like that. |
I was talking about this:
| quote: | | in all the arts there is always this kind of 'aura' that stems from physicality and manual skill that is highly prized compared to machine output. |
I just want to know if that's how you feel. I wasn't assuming anything just intrigued that somebody like you known to put up awesome sets regularly and really be into the scene now kind of agree with what the OP brought up. Just sparked my curiosity.
and don't call me surely.
/lame |
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| Darkarbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Meat187
I tell him that I'm not arguing with someone who can't even spell "stuff" correctly.
Wait... something's wrong here. |
Topic title has a character limit, and I just copied from there into first post, will fix.
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
not sarcastic, just exaggerating.
what I mean is, I have more respect for people who make music live, even if I don't like it, than I do for people who spend weeks behind an ableton screen making something I don't like. |
Thats a little silly,
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Really?
The emotional power of my favorite dance music has the same longevity for me as any other kind of music I listen to. Does that mark me as someone with poor taste or arrested aesthetic development?
:clown:
I don't see what's so different about dance music as compared to any other kind of music, or why it should be less "powerful." Yeah, it's a heck of a lot simpler than many other kinds of music, but simple need not mean bad, cheap, or ephemeral. |
I agree, btw with edm I was also refering to ambient/drum n bass/idm etc, which aren't any more dancey then rock.
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
You wrote "the difference is, in a month [the dance tracks you heard] probably won't give you shivers anymore."
I was remarking how that doesn't match up with my own experience of dance music. |
Yes, wtf? Concidering I've been listening to the same set of cds (distance to goa 1-4/goa head 1-4) for the past 2 years, and the songs are so amazingly deep that they will never get old, I beg to differ (with nefardec). |
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