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What to say, when you get the "edm has no emotion/is all just crappy stuf to dance to (pg. 6)
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by Darkarbiter
Yes, wtf? Concidering I've been listening to the same set of cds (distance to goa 1-4/goa head 1-4) for the past 2 years, and the songs are so amazingly deep that they will never get old, I beg to differ (with nefardec). |
i have lots of classic mixes too, but i would definitely call them the exceptions to the mounds of out there, that's all i'm saying
@wotyzoid -
i grew up listening to classical and jazz music before i got into electronic things like tangerine dream. if i go to see a performance i prefer to see someone playing an instrument and making music with their hands and mouths and bodies. i play jazz saxophone and it took years of dedicated practice to get to where I am now (even though i'm not as good as I used to be after I took up deejaying seriously). I studied with a private teacher, learned tonal theory, performed with bands, etc. Sometimes I would practice for four hours straight and the reed would be covered in blood. And I'm still not very great.
By contrast, I did my first DJ gig two weeks after I touched technics, and I filled a club to its max 500 person capacity until the end. Now this may be irrelevant because Deejaying is different than 'making music' in the way of producing, but it took me about a year only to make things that didn't sound like ass and that I could play out while I deejayed. And I did not even practice four hours a day learning how to produce music like I did when I played saxophone.
All I am saying is, having done both things, I have a lot more respect for traditional musicians IN GENERAL. Certainly there are incredible producers and live electronic musicians who stand out as prodigies and unique talents. But again, IN GENERAL, I think it is much easier and quicker to make passable music electronically than it to dedicate oneself to an instrument or multiple instruments or to traditional orchestration and composition.
Also, from my experience, I can be much more expressive with my internal feelings when I am actually blowing air through my saxophone and every cell of my body to my fingertips changes how I manipulate the passage of air through the various tone holes, how my lips press against the reed, how i am breathing in and out.
When I make music on a software sequencer, or even if I were to use a sampler or a tape deck, in many cases I have to simulate this body/mind connection that is implicit in playing an instrument. The simulation is tweaked and engineered and it's just not the same IMO. Sometimes it can be done emotionally, but the production process allows people who don't have experience in expressing themselves musically through an instrument for instance, make professional sounding music that is lifeless, etc. People defend it, saying "It's just dance music", or "it works in a club".
Even if I am doing a live PA, turning a knob just isn't the same as feeling the resistance of a piece of cane in my mouth as I try to go up to a false fingering C. I can't control the wah on a keyboard in a way that feelings like I am making love to someone...
There are certainly people who have tackled this problem of expression in electronic music, but they are few.
My belief is that when people try to make electronic dance music expressive in the manner of traditional 'unplugged' music, they tend to run into problems. One way around this is recording and sampling obviously.
However, I feel that the SOUL of electronic music is heavily rooted in its MACHINIC fact. Case in point, Jeff Mills - The Bells. The TR909 for that matter. The TB303. No one tries to make a beach guitar sound with a TB303. (though it's hilarious that these machines were developed to simulate real instruments lol) Have you ever seen the orchestral version of The Bells? It's terrible, lol. Imagine someone trying to play rimsky-korsakov on a keyboard. |
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| Darkarbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
i have lots of classic mixes too, but i would definitely call them the exceptions to the mounds of out there, that's all i'm saying
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Yes but the point was, some electronic music is absolutely classic. I'm not talking about quantity or averages. Why would I care if subgenres I do not listen to bring the average quality of edm down? |
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| Fpcookie |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beat Blog
A lot of people tend not to make the distinction between a bad track that they like, and a good track that they like. I do.
To use a movie analogy...Billy Madison is a ing stupid movie of poor quality, yet I love it.
Conversely, something like American Beauty or Babel, even though people might not like them, they should be able to realise them for what they are: movies with artistic integrity and deep thought put into them.
It seems strange to me that most people can't make the same connection with music. |
agree. can be annoying sometimes. |
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| wotyzoid |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
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This is completely fair, I see where you are coming from. Obviously my ignorance makes it a little difficult to completely grasp what you said regarding the effort requirement to play an instrument because I do not play any instruments, never had the pleasure and opportunity to, and I've never seriously attempted to produce any sort of electronic music, BUT I have dj'ed for people before so it's completely polar. It's not just writing off, just a high level of appreciation for the things you obviously understand a lot better than most of us, and I totally respect that. |
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| Darkarbiter |
| I think more with instruments is, the hard work you put into it just makes you jaded about things. Hardly exactly more perspective. "I appreciate this music more because I know how much hard work goes into playing x instrument" off, seriously. |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by Darkarbiter
I think more with instruments is, the hard work you put into it just makes you jaded about things. Hardly exactly more perspective. "I appreciate this music more because I know how much hard work goes into playing x instrument" off, seriously. |
just out of curiosity, do you play any instruments? :p
| quote: | | Why would I care if subgenres I do not listen to bring the average quality of edm down? |
also, this is a really troublesome statement |
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| Darkarbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
just out of curiosity, do you play any instruments? :p
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Not really, but seeing my dad go from listening to edm/classical to playing in a folk band and then listening to folk music is where I draw said conclusion from (as well as what other people have said etc). He was like "oh this is so much better because they use actual instruments and I understand what thats like" although it later turned out he still liked edm as much, just felt like being an elitist about live music. More a simple "I do not like goa trance because its too trippey for me" would have sufficed, but instead I get a long drawn out logical conclusion on why live music is better (and as mentioned 6 months later he falls in love with his classic trance/synth classical cds again). |
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| Mr.Mystery |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
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What was that about not turning this to a Spirit5 thread? Write less, say more. |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mr.Mystery
What was that about not turning this to a Spirit5 thread? Write less, say more. |
uh oh, the judge is in the house |
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| enydo |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
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Great post, really explains a lot about your taste in dance music and the type of mixes you create.
I'm definitely going to grab my sax when I'm back at home and pick up a few new reeds. It's been way too long. |
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| PETRAN |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
i have lots of classic mixes too, but i would definitely call them the exceptions to the mounds of out there, that's all i'm saying
@wotyzoid -
i grew up listening to classical and jazz music before i got into electronic things like tangerine dream. if i go to see a performance i prefer to see someone playing an instrument and making music with their hands and mouths and bodies. i play jazz saxophone and it took years of dedicated practice to get to where I am now (even though i'm not as good as I used to be after I took up deejaying seriously). I studied with a private teacher, learned tonal theory, performed with bands, etc. Sometimes I would practice for four hours straight and the reed would be covered in blood. And I'm still not very great.
By contrast, I did my first DJ gig two weeks after I touched technics, and I filled a club to its max 500 person capacity until the end. Now this may be irrelevant because Deejaying is different than 'making music' in the way of producing, but it took me about a year only to make things that didn't sound like ass and that I could play out while I deejayed. And I did not even practice four hours a day learning how to produce music like I did when I played saxophone.
All I am saying is, having done both things, I have a lot more respect for traditional musicians IN GENERAL. Certainly there are incredible producers and live electronic musicians who stand out as prodigies and unique talents. But again, IN GENERAL, I think it is much easier and quicker to make passable music electronically than it to dedicate oneself to an instrument or multiple instruments or to traditional orchestration and composition.
Also, from my experience, I can be much more expressive with my internal feelings when I am actually blowing air through my saxophone and every cell of my body to my fingertips changes how I manipulate the passage of air through the various tone holes, how my lips press against the reed, how i am breathing in and out.
When I make music on a software sequencer, or even if I were to use a sampler or a tape deck, in many cases I have to simulate this body/mind connection that is implicit in playing an instrument. The simulation is tweaked and engineered and it's just not the same IMO. Sometimes it can be done emotionally, but the production process allows people who don't have experience in expressing themselves musically through an instrument for instance, make professional sounding music that is lifeless, etc. People defend it, saying "It's just dance music", or "it works in a club".
Even if I am doing a live PA, turning a knob just isn't the same as feeling the resistance of a piece of cane in my mouth as I try to go up to a false fingering C. I can't control the wah on a keyboard in a way that feelings like I am making love to someone...
There are certainly people who have tackled this problem of expression in electronic music, but they are few.
My belief is that when people try to make electronic dance music expressive in the manner of traditional 'unplugged' music, they tend to run into problems. One way around this is recording and sampling obviously.
However, I feel that the SOUL of electronic music is heavily rooted in its MACHINIC fact. Case in point, Jeff Mills - The Bells. The TR909 for that matter. The TB303. No one tries to make a beach guitar sound with a TB303. (though it's hilarious that these machines were developed to simulate real instruments lol) Have you ever seen the orchestral version of The Bells? It's terrible, lol. Imagine someone trying to play rimsky-korsakov on a keyboard. |
Very good post, seriously. I like how you love your EDM although you are trying to be objective about things. This is maturity. Screw the haters lol. |
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| Darkarbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by PETRAN
Very good post, seriously. I like how you love your EDM although you are trying to be objective about things. This is maturity. Screw the haters lol. |
Sounded more like the opposite to me. |
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