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Free-will and the average person.
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| Lira |
Imagine there's a parallel universe just like ours. Everything that exists here also exists there. Everyone's got a clone there, and they happen to know the same things their original counterparts do. They also share the same preferences. Everything is identical. But, they could change at any moment.
Now, let's talk about Billy and his clone from this parallel universe, Billy'. Billy and Billy' are, as expected, exactly alike. Billy likes turtles. So does Billy'. Billy is good at sports. So is Billy'. Billy roots for the Manchester United. Billy' is just as miserable :p
And then, there's Barbina. Billy fancies Barbina just as much as Billy' likes Barbina'. Neither Billy nor Billy' know they're lesbians though, and they really want to ask Barbina and Barbina' out. Both boys got their phone number, and they're anxious in their bedroom, wondering whether or not to phone the girls.
So, all things being equal until this very moment, do the boys have to make the same decision? (i.e. either they both call the girls or they both do something else) Or can they finally do something different for a change? (i.e. Billy phones Barbina while Billy' either phones someone else or gets cold feet).
Edit: Fair enough, here's my opinion, but I'd like to hear yours first. To read the following paragraphs, just highlight them...
Fair enough, some people like Capitalizt seem to be a bit lazy to think, so here's my opinion. Usually, most people tend to think that, under the same circumstances, individuals will all do the same thing. So, if both Billy and Billy' like Barbina and Barbina' the same way, and they're all in the same context, most people think they both will do the same thing. It's as if every single action people made had a purpose.
I don't believe that is the case. I really think that, in spite of all the background, individuals are re-evaluating themselves at every single minute and can at any minute do something else for the sake of it, which would naturally lead to a different turn out of events in this case. |
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| denys envy |
| Shouldn't Billy' be a fan of Manchester United'? |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by denys envy
Shouldn't Billy' be a fan of Manchester United'? |
He is, hence his misery :p |
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| a spoon |
| quote: | Originally posted by denys envy
Shouldn't Billy' be a fan of Manchester United'? |
:o |
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| Capitalizt |
| I'm disappointed that I wasted 35 seconds reading this post. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
I'm disappointed that I wasted 35 seconds reading this post. |
Next time, just hover the mouse over the title to see what the content is. Rather than make a point, I just want to know the opinion of others here, because of a similar survey I saw somewhere else.
Edit: I'm going to spare people like you from thinking. Highlight the white paragraphs and be given an opinion before you come up with something of your own ;) |
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| denys envy |
| well i would say that whatever the decision is, it would end up being the same for both of them - since things have lined up to this point there's no reason it changes now. |
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| KiNeTiC ENeRgY |
| Sometimes u should just keep thoughts to one's self me thinks :conf: :conf: |
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| Boomer187 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Neither Billy nor Billy' know they're lesbians though, |
wait, Billy and Billy' are lesbians?
plus I think it is awkward to set up a huge hypothetical situation with very detailed specifics, and then ask how the story ends afterward. By setting the story up with very detailed non-realistic specifics about each counterpart you are priming us to follow the trend and say that they both do the same thing.
There is also the temptation to break the tradition of your story and say they do different things, this applies only if we disregard the hypothetical situation. Which nulls the whole storyline.
My answer, the world hypothetically blows up on Billy'. And I don't think this gets at whether you believe in free-will as you have primed us with a story of no free-will. I think it more gets at whether we are willing to accept your hypothetical situation, or call it and make up our own story.
and on another note, this is why I hate sci-fi movies. Its made up, why not cut to the chase, say the hero has the power of lvl 98 killa-boner and he destroys the bad guy. Its always some magic power the hero 'discovers' at the end. Bah humbuig! |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by denys envy
well i would say that whatever the decision is, it would end up being the same for both of them - since things have lined up to this point there's no reason it changes now. |
Why? They don't know about one another, why would they keep doing the same things? |
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| Vivid Boy |
do they feel the same way or do they also have taken the same actions in the past
this is just a question of nature vs nurture.
i say if they think the same and have been through the same experiences they will tend to act the same.
humans are easy to understand, the way we think the way we act is all based on loops and habits |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Boomer187
wait, Billy and Billy' are lesbians? |
:p
| quote: | Originally posted by Boomer187
plus I think it is awkward to set up a huge hypothetical situation with very detailed specifics, and then ask how the story ends afterward. By setting the story up with very detailed non-realistic specifics about each counterpart you are priming us to follow the trend and say that they both do the same thing.
There is also the temptation to break the tradition of your story and say they do different things, this applies only if we disregard the hypothetical situation. Which nulls the whole storyline. |
Well, this is just the CORe version of a thought experiment by Shaun Nichols I once heard. What I find interesting is that he says most people tend to think they're going to do the same thing because there's nothing inherently different about any of them. They all have the same interests and have been influenced by the same things, so they'd do the same, thus making explicit our tendency to be deterministic (even though we believe there is free will). Even when people do say they don't have to do the same thing, they always come up with an explanation that makes them different right from the offset.
Like I said in the white paragraphs, I don't think it's necessary for them to do the same thing, because you can "go against the flow", so to speak, and choose to do something entirely random.
| quote: | Originally posted by Boomer187
My answer, the world hypothetically blows up on Billy'. And I don't think this gets at whether you believe in free-will as you have primed us with a story of no free-will. I think it more gets at whether we are willing to accept your hypothetical situation, or call it and make up our own story. |
Indeed - if you think there is free-will, you will have to reject the fact that the future will be just like the past in this story. That's the whole point.
| quote: | Originally posted by Boomer187
and on another note, this is why I hate sci-fi movies. Its made up, why not cut to the chase, say the hero has the power of lvl 98 killa-boner and he destroys the bad guy. Its always some magic power the hero 'discovers' at the end. Bah humbuig! |
I don't like them either :conf: |
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