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Ghost Producers... (pg. 2)
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| Stef |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0729
i'll keep my mouth shut in this thread. a lot of huge names have ghost producers. |
Well thats no fun ;) |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
Also, how do you guys think Ghost Production plays out? Ghost Producer contacts DJ or Producer and tells them "hey I have a track that might fit your sound," or the DJ contacts the ghost producer and asks them if they can produce a few tracks for them. I've been thinking about it and i'd like to find some DJ's or Producers that could use some music, especially tracks that i've produced that will probably never see the light of day under my own project, unless of course I were to create another project to release it through.
With that said, it might also be fun to branch out to other genres by ghost producing without having to create a whole new project around it. Just give someone established the music, but still have the satisifaction of being able to be versatile and make music that you would normally not make, but could make if you applied yourself. Also seeing reactions and the success of the musics from a voyeuristic angle might be fun stuff. |
I think a LOT of it is a big "Good ol Boys" network. These guys all know each other. In the case of someone like Sasha, his brand name recognition is big enough for him to pick and choose who he wants to work with. In other cases I think its a case of established producers bringing young talent into their fold. Sasha did it with James Zabiela, Above & Beyond are doing it with Jaytech. The Swedish House Mafia guys all did it by being brought into the fold by Stonebridge, who had chart success way early on.
I have found that the best way to pick out the talent is to look at producers who produce under many aliases. John Graham (Tilt, Space Manouvres, Quivver) or Norman Cook (Fatboy Slim, Pizzaman, Beats International, Mighty Dub Katz) are perfect examples of artists who actually are "producers", and work on their own or are heavily involved as part of collaborations.
Also, some of these guys were brought up in traditional recording avenues before moving onto EDM. Tony from Above & Beyond was a producer at Warner before starting A&B. I think having all those contacts in the industry is extremely beneficial.
For those of us who are completely isolated as producers, especially in the U.S., we all have an EXTREMELY hard time breaking into an industry that is mainly focused in Europe. Being in the right place at the right time has help a lot of people keep from toiling away in obscurity. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0729
i'll keep my mouth shut in this thread. a lot of huge names have ghost producers. |
That's what Alts are for. |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric J
I think a LOT of it is a big "Good ol Boys" network. These guys all know each other. In the case of someone like Sasha, his brand name recognition is big enough for him to pick and choose who he wants to work with. In other cases I think its a case of established producers bringing young talent into their fold. Sasha did it with James Zabiela, Above & Beyond are doing it with Jaytech. The Swedish House Mafia guys all did it by being brought into the fold by Stonebridge, who had chart success way early on.
I have found that the best way to pick out the talent is to look at producers who produce under many aliases. John Graham (Tilt, Space Manouvres, Quivver) or Norman Cook (Fatboy Slim, Pizzaman, Beats International, Mighty Dub Katz) are perfect examples of artists who actually are "producers", and work on their own or are heavily involved as part of collaborations.
Also, some of these guys were brought up in traditional recording avenues before moving onto EDM. Tony from Above & Beyond was a producer at Warner before starting A&B. I think having all those contacts in the industry is extremely beneficial.
For those of us who are completely isolated as producers, especially in the U.S., we all have an EXTREMELY hard time breaking into an industry that is mainly focused in Europe. Being in the right place at the right time has help a lot of people keep from toiling away in obscurity. |
Good point there, us Americanos are indeed isolated from the German, UK, Spanish labels that are more deeper entrenched into dance music. Thanks to the internet, good music can bubble to the top, even though the connections arent there. US definately needs more hungry, successful, and innovative dance labels though. And if a quality outlet doesn't exist for our music, we should create our own label. According to anecdotal evidence, this music doesn't make much money, at least we should be able to keep the music as our own, especially if there is a more viable market in 5 or 10 years for the music. Since you own your own destiny, you can always rerelease good music that was overlooked the first time around, or if the market and sound has simply gone back to that music. |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
And if a quality outlet doesn't exist for our music, we should create our own label. According to anecdotal evidence, this music doesn't make much money anyways, at least we should be able to keep it as our own. |
Hey I'm all for it if someone wants to run the business end. I'm fortunate enough to have had a long standing relationship with a UK label, but I would also like to support something local, and be able to kick it with my label mates without having to fly halfway across the country to do so.
I think part of it lies in the fact that U.S. producers and labels traditionally are not taken as seriously as their European counterparts. I have seen that bias in one form or another for quite some time now, going back to when I got into this stuff in the early 90's. U.S. house has seemed to be the only genre to really garner respect from the European EDM community. Most of my house producer friends from back in the day went on to fairly successful careers, but I don't know anyone in any other genre that can say the same from my neck of the woods.
In the U.S., its pretty much San Fran, NY or Miami. If you aren't in one of those places, you're already fighting an uphill battle. That being said, I don't really blame Europe from "looking down" on the US. EDM is not a part of our culture here in the same way that it is in large parts of Europe. |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric J
Hey I'm all for it if someone wants to run the business end. I'm fortunate enough to have had a long standing relationship with a UK label, but I would also like to support something local, and be able to kick it with my label mates without having to fly halfway across the country to do so.
I think part of it lies in the fact that U.S. producers and labels traditionally are not taken as seriously as their European counterparts. I have seen that bias in one form or another for quite some time now, going back to when I got into this stuff in the early 90's. U.S. house has seemed to be the only genre to really garner respect from the European EDM community. Most of my house producer friends from back in the day went on to fairly successful careers, but I don't know anyone in any other genre that can say the same from my neck of the woods.
In the U.S., its pretty much San Fran, NY or Miami. If you aren't in one of those places, you're already fighting an uphill battle. That being said, I don't really blame Europe from "looking down" on the US. EDM is not a part of our culture here in the same way that it is in large parts of Europe. |
Yah there definately is a bias or elitist attitude that european labels have towards America, although these days they do love Detroit Techno and its history to no end. Even Americans have an interesting attitude towards the American scene, so I dont think things will change anytime soon as far as how Europe sees American producers who are producing upfront underground music. Ghostly International and Spectral Sound are doing a decent job at supporting American artists, but again the pickings are slim for us, still have to hypnotize the Europeans with really good music, or do it yourself. At least we have Beatport on our side? |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
Yah there definately is a bias or elitist attitude that european labels have towards America, although these days they do love Detroit Techno and its history to no end. Even Americans have an interesting attitude towards the American scene, so I dont think things will change anytime soon as far as how Europe sees American producers who are producing upfront underground music. Ghostly International and Spectral Sound are doing a decent job at supporting American artists, but again the pickings are slim for us, still have to hypnotize the Europeans with really good music, or do it yourself. At least we have Beatport on our side? |
Well and it makes sense too. I mean this country is ALL about hip-hop. That's fine and dandy for those who are into that kind of music, but frankly out culture will probably always hold us back. We're too conservative, too corporate. At least were on the right track with the result of the election, but its going to take a lot of years for the American mindset to change. Historically, SO much good music comes out of Europe, sometimes I think it is something they are putting in the water over there! :)
So many of my friends just don't have a clue when it comes to music. Sometimes I think I was born in the wrong country for the music I'm into. :) |
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| Subtle |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric J
So many of my friends just don't have a clue when it comes to music. Sometimes I think I was born in the wrong country for the music I'm into. :) |
Hehe you are not alone though, and i do live in Europe.
As far as i know the really big countries when it comes to this kind of music are England, Germany, Netherlands.
The rest probably has the same small percentage as in the US.
Atleast that is the impression i have. |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric J
Well and it makes sense too. I mean this country is ALL about hip-hop. That's fine and dandy for those who are into that kind of music, but frankly out culture will probably always hold us back. We're too conservative, too corporate. At least were on the right track with the result of the election, but its going to take a lot of years for the American mindset to change. Historically, SO much good music comes out of Europe, sometimes I think it is something they are putting in the water over there! :)
So many of my friends just don't have a clue when it comes to music. Sometimes I think I was born in the wrong country for the music I'm into. :) |
Well, it is also harder to sell dance music than it is to sell Hip Hop or Rock, primarily because dance music image wise is a hard sell, the biggest acts are 30+ and 40+ years old. To sell large quantities of music or to become famous, labels need to create a marketable image for their artists alongside the music. So thats part of why America hasn't embraced dance music. The returns wont be that big for the big 5. Although Warner seems to be dabbling. After noticing how big the dance scene is worldwide through the internet. Also some American labels like Interscope seem to be testing out Electronic Pop + image through the likes of Lady Gaga, and there is the indie electronic rock sound, Sony's MGMT. So im thinking America is slowly but cautiously working its way into electronic music, but heavily infused with a pop image to allow the teens and tweens to have something to attach themselves to, nothing underground. |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
Well, it is also harder to sell dance music than it is to sell Hip Hop or Rock, primarily because dance music image wise is a hard sell, the biggest acts are 30+ and 40+ years old. To sell large quantities of music or to become famous, labels need to create a marketable image for their artists alongside the music. So thats part of why America hasn't embraced dance music. The returns wont be that big for the big 5. Although Warner seems to be dabbling. After noticing how big the dance scene is worldwide through the internet. Also some American labels like Interscope seem to be testing out Electronic Pop + image through the likes of Lady Gaga, and there is the indie electronic rock sound. So im thinking America is slowly but cautiously working its way into dance music, but heavily infused with a pop image to allow the teens and tweens to have something to attach themselves to, nothing underground. |
Yeah and that's the irony I struggle with. If I'm honest with myself, I have to say that I like the fact that this music is underground. If this music was as big as hip-hop, then I might not have gotten into it in the way that I did. Everyone likes to feel like they are more clued up than the next person. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
Sasha -> The COMA gang, Charlie May, Junkie XL, BT, Tom Frederikse
Digweed -> Nick Muir
Oakenfold -> Andy Gray, Steve Osbourne
Goldie -> Rob Playford
Sven Vath -> Ralf Hildenbeutel, Roman Flugel
Dave Seaman -> Steve Anderson
Just a few from the top of my head. The way it works is these guys basically take the instructions of the more famous half of the team and make it musical reality. The DJ has a lot of knowledge on what works on the dancefloor but they aren't too hot on making their ideas reality, so they work with the studio talent. The lesser known guy doesn't get his name on the cover but he gets plenty of royalties, more than making his own material would probably earn him, so it's mutually beneficial.
I think too much is made of it sometimes. Sasha has had a whole string of collaborators going back to the early 90s but there's always a distinctive Sasha sound to his work. The guy can play piano and must have relative pitch or an ear for music given he practically pioneered harmonic mixing, and I wouldn't be surprised if he does his share of writing. His productions have always been cutting edge though, and I'm guessing it's that sophisticated production sound he gets people in for.
I think Rob Playford once said he could never have imagined half the music he wrote with Goldie if Goldie hadn't given him the ideas. It's not as though these DJs just pay some studio lackey to make music for them while they do lines of coke with hookers off ultra-rare acetates. |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Sasha -> The COMA gang, Charlie May, Junkie XL, BT, Tom Frederikse
Digweed -> Nick Muir
Oakenfold -> Andy Gray, Steve Osbourne
Goldie -> Rob Playford
Sven Vath -> Ralf Hildenbeutel, Roman Flugel
Dave Seaman -> Steve Anderson
Just a few from the top of my head. The way it works is these guys basically take the instructions of the more famous half of the team and make it musical reality. The DJ has a lot of knowledge on what works on the dancefloor but they aren't too hot on making their ideas reality, so they work with the studio talent. The lesser known guy doesn't get his name on the cover but he gets plenty of royalties, more than making his own material would probably earn him, so it's mutually beneficial.
I think too much is made of it sometimes. Sasha has had a whole string of collaborators going back to the early 90s but there's always a distinctive Sasha sound to his work. The guy can play piano and must have relative pitch or an ear for music given he practically pioneered harmonic mixing, and I wouldn't be surprised if he does his share of writing. His productions have always been cutting edge though, and I'm guessing it's that sophisticated production sound he gets people in for.
I think Rob Playford once said he could never have imagined half the music he wrote with Goldie if Goldie hadn't given him the ideas. It's not as though these DJs just pay some studio lackey to make music for them while they do lines of coke with hookers off ultra-rare acetates. |
Yah, its a partnership that definately works for both sides. Also Sasha has Duncan Forbes on his team as well. |
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