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what it takes to produce... do i have the hard part down already? (pg. 6)
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Those technically things aren't hard...mastering is a 5-10 minute job in a wav editor. |
:stongue:
You really have an unjustifiably huge ego, to come in here and insult every person who has ever struggled with technical issues.
So...if all this stuff comes so easy to you, why aren't you pumping out high quality, professional-sounding tunes by the dozen and getting signed left and right? |
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| cronodevir |
Because my struggle is composing. And "getting signed and sounding professional" isn't the end goal.
Diginut was essentially saying that 'learning to use the tools', was harder than 'coming up with the thing you want to use the tools to build.'
Or, building a paintbrush is harder than painting a picture.
Building a cello is harder than composing a cellist piece.
Etc Etc...
When a person says using the tools is more of a struggle than composing a piece of music, to me this shows a lack of understanding how deep musical composition goes.
And yes mastering is a 5-10 minute job. Ive seen guys in a mastering studio do a whole album in an hour. This was for tracks that had clipping and needed an average RMS. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Because my struggle is composing. And "getting signed and sounding professional" isn't the end goal. |
But if it's all so easy, why not just do it, hmm? Why would you deliberately avoid making money from your music?
If I remember right, the only tunes I've heard from you have been distinctly unimpressive in both the "technical" and "musical" senses, so I really don't understand where you get off having this enormous ego trip about how you must be so much smarter than people who struggle at different stuff than you do, much less making light of the skill of someone like Mozart, LOL. You're like a guy who beats his friend at a few games of chess and thinks he's ready to take on Vladimir Kramnik.
:haha: |
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| -FSP- |
technical can make up for lack of music and vice versa.
i mean just listen to the timbre on some synths, you can play nursurey songs and make them sound cool. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
This is why I don't respect this place anymore, people are so pitiful. |
The feeling is entirely mutual. So why don't you just leave, permanently?
I've never met you but judging by your posts you seem to be a textbook case of NPD. You really should seek professional help. |
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| cronodevir |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
But if it's all so easy, why not just do it, hmm? Why would you deliberately avoid making money from your music?
If I remember right, the only tunes I've heard from you have been distinctly unimpressive in both the "technical" and "musical" senses, so I really don't understand where you get off having this enormous ego trip about how you must be so much smarter than people who struggle at different stuff than you do, much less making light of the skill of someone like Mozart, LOL. You're like a guy who beats his friend at a few games of chess and thinks he's ready to take on Vladimir Kramnik.
:haha: |
Because making money off music is stupid, I would go out of my way to ensure others don't, if I could. That is why I don't try to join a label or some other nonsense. If you want money, go do something productive. Don't smear the music world with music because you want to make a hundred bucks.
As far as my music goes..beats anything you could ever muster.
No one is on an Ego trip, I'm just astounded at the patheticness of artists these days. People are struggling at stuff you shouldn't be struggling. If a fat kid is struggling to do an obstical course, you don't sympathize with the fat kid, you blame him for allowing himself to be so flawed as to not finish the course. People who struggle on elementary things like EQ, are not in the right mindset to even consider themselves an musician. The basics are, do you know what each knob on the EQ does? Boom, then you should be a master at EQing things the way you want. If after messing with EQ for a week or so you are still unable to get the result you want, then you are doing something wrong, and its no one elses fault.
Mozart is just another artist, like Bass Hunter or Juno Reactor or Pink Floyd...
@fsp
without melody, there is no music. and without good melody, there is no good music. random sounds and a kick drum isn't music. no matter how commercial it sounds.
@diginut
I don't leave because I enjoy correcting/helping people. Just like you enjoy it when you think you are correcting/helping people. If people don't recognize that there is a problem, then they will never be able to fix it. Having utterly no musical ability, but being able to EQ, then still calling yourself a musician...is a problem. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
I don't leave because I enjoy correcting/helping people. Just like you enjoy it when you think you are correcting/helping people. |
The primary difference being that all of your corrections have been incorrect, and your helpful comments like "Mozart would laugh his ass off" are definitively not helpful. |
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| cronodevir |
Ive been more helpful than you have. The sum of your contribution is a thread with other peoples work. I'm trying to clear the misconceptions about music, technical work being the crux of the difficulty in production is a vast misconception. Its so bad that people don't even acknowledge that EDM as a whole contains barely a few scraps of even basic musical comp. People think that the musical composition has been maxed as it were, that there is nothing else that can be done musically. And so all this emphasis is placed on trivial matters.
I find this to be a grave mistake. And it only furthers the devolution of music. If people don't realize that the problem with EDM lies in the composition and not "how good that EQ sounds", then EDM will never be more than some blips and bloops with a kickdrum. And that is certainly not euphoric. This is what is wrong with stuff like ASOT these days....its vengeance cds, with no melody, with good mastering. Literally. And people look up to this junk. People even get offended when you call it junk lol. You have people who's scope is so tiny that ASOT, for them, is the epitome of musical comp, they only see a tiny fragment of what music is. ...and then these people downloaded FLStudio and Cubase. Rest is History. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
So if you think musicality is being neglected so much, why not start some threads about composition rather than just whining about how you think everyone is getting it wrong?
From what I've seen in this forum, Diginut has given dozens of times more advice about both musical and technical issues than you ever have. If you think his only contribution is the sticky, then you just haven't been reading this forum all that carefully. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Ive been more helpful than you have. The sum of your contribution is a thread with other peoples work. I'm trying to clear the misconceptions about music, technical work being the crux of the difficulty in production is a vast misconception. Its so bad that people don't even acknowledge that EDM as a whole contains barely a few scraps of even basic musical comp. People think that the musical composition has been maxed as it were, that there is nothing else that can be done musically. And so all this emphasis is placed on trivial matters.
I find this to be a grave mistake. And it only furthers the devolution of music. If people don't realize that the problem with EDM lies in the composition and not "how good that EQ sounds", then EDM will never be more than some blips and bloops with a kickdrum. And that is certainly not euphoric. This is what is wrong with stuff like ASOT these days....its vengeance cds, with no melody, with good mastering. Literally. And people look up to this junk. People even get offended when you call it junk lol. You have people who's scope is so tiny that ASOT, for them, is the epitome of musical comp, they only see a tiny fragment of what music is. ...and then these people downloaded FLStudio and Cubase. Rest is History. |
This is all well and good, and having been a musician since I was 6 and taken all the requisite theory courses, I understand completely about the ignorance of the subject in the world of electronic music production. You, however, haven't given us any reason to believe that you know any more about the subject than the rest of the mouth-breathers you never fail to take cheap shots at, and in fact everything I've read and heard from you so far indicates that you're in no position to be criticizing others for their lack of education.
You aren't clearing up misconceptions, you're getting on your high horse, and you haven't earned the right to do that. |
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| mfitterer1 |
The bottom line is this. It takes a special mind to make a special track. Many of the tracks you just dissed on are crap. But with more effort and time put into them instead of rushing them off to the mastering house for the next 200 dollars, those tracks could be amazing for years and years.
People just don't have any clue about anything. Most everyone is lazy. Thus, why would they want to spend 200 hours making a classic instead of 24 hours making a hit trance track (which will stay a hit for only 2 months). A great deal of the people in this genre are in it for the money, not to get out a message, or to help people feel something. Wrong business to do that. This isn't a law firm, this isn't an oil cartel. This isn't wall street. People are far too good at settling for mediocrity. This is not really easy to prove but I have a fundamental belief that success is a learned trait, and can be applied to any field/avenue. If you are the best at one thing, you have the mental fortitude to be the best at anything you choose. It takes a certain brain type and learned ability to be the best. It takes a passion, and there is always a reason for why they are doing it.
Most producers in all different genres have no purpose to their work, or in the pursuit of their work. This is why mediocrity reigns supreme. The people who think outside of the box and challenge themselves consistently, in all endeavors, will always be more successful than the luckbox who threw some presets together with a catchy 4 bar melody.
Everyone has their reasons for what they do. It just happens 99% of those reasons are ill conceived and will accomplish nothing more then normalcy. |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
[b]
And it only furthers the devolution of music. If people don't realize that the problem with EDM lies in the composition and not "how good that EQ sounds", then EDM will never be more than some blips and bloops with a kickdrum. And that is certainly not euphoric. This is what is wrong with stuff like ASOT these days....its vengeance cds, with no melody, with good mastering. Literally. And people look up to this junk. People even get offended when you call it junk lol. You have people who's scope is so tiny that ASOT, for them, is the epitome of musical comp, they only see a tiny fragment of what music is. ...and then these people downloaded FLStudio and Cubase. Rest is History. |
I've only read about 3 posts of yours, which is why I was wondering why DJ RANN wanted to throw you in the back of a trunk, but you say some crazy man lol. There is no problem with EDM, get off that, it is simply a form of music, a very versatile one, a very diverse and expansive genre, with as much talent producing the music as any other genre, and this with a DIY echosystem.
People fail to realise that a big part of why you hear terrible EDM music is because there are countless labels with very poor taste (including ones that get stroked on the RA's of the world) that are putting music that should'nt be heard outside the walls they were created in. You don't hear the countless sea of ty Pop, Hip Hop, and Rock being made in bedroom studios, because they really have no major channels of delivery to the masses, the mainstream takes up 90% of the space out there. Well actually you do hear countless pieces of ty Pop, Hip Hop, Rock, just by turning on the radio, those genres are dead for creativity and quality. They are being saved in some ways by Indie Lables who have impregnated Major labels with ideas and talent, since Major Labels these days cant foster talent worth a cent.
So what is wrong with EDM, besides the fact you can access the not so great music out there? Whose fault is that? The Producer who sweats and makes amazing music that doesn't get heard and recognized enough? The people like you who are too lazy to find the good music out there? There is still endless amounts of great EDM being put out on a monthly basis, more so than any other genre out there, it really depends on where you are looking for music, and how hard you look. I remember in 1999 before TA came up on my radar I use to find obscure websites for any morsel of good electronic music I could find, I'd go through hundreds of pieces of music just to find 10. The only thing I was mad at was that there wasn't a place I could find more good pieces of music more efficiently. Since now in 2009 there are countless places to find good pieces of music efficiently, it is your responsibility to discover the music, while filtering out and ignoring the lower quality music.
So, only the biggest of idiots, diss the quality of electronic music, whatever genre it might be. Instead people should be seeking the good music out there, and finding ways to pass along that good music to others. |
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