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Is there really an audience? (pg. 2)
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| Stephen Wiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sonic_c
Also this 30 sales at the top of Juno album chart that cant be so. Anjunabeats and armada are top and you cant tell me Oceanlab sell less than 30 albums on Juno? |
Well I can tell you, because I run the label and saw the numbers myself. Those A&B remixes are available the second they hit the shelves so you've got a lot, and i mean A LOT, of file sharing taking away from the downloads.
That's great about your friend but that is an exception to the rule. For every "successful" producer there are probably 5,000 failures. I define success as being able to live off your music (and hopefully see the world through a box of records)
I'm having a hard time believing 3000 euro's for a remix unless it was a monster name. When exactly did this occur and do you mind telling the parties involved. |
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| msz |
| very interesting thread, made me think about a lot of things -- for the better. cheers guys. |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sonic_c
I turned a Label down for that reason they only had 148 myspace friends and a poor website. Now im building a database of demo submission emails and dj track submit links etc so when I am 100% on a track its gettin out there. Its also why im doin the course. Most of my teachers dj or perform etc at weekends my production teacher got nominated for best live act at drum and bass awards next to pendulum. It helps being around these guys seeing them "make it happen" annoys me when people say its dead. |
Good moves. This is exactly whats growin. Avoid toxic labels, instead find good labels, even if they dont pay sweet advances, but most importantly they will do well to find your music an audience, build up your value, and eventual success if you keep adding reasons for why a label should give you a decent advance, or paid remix work. Also it is matter of aligning with the right people, and getting recognized by the right people. Which goes back to the quality of your music and your craft. So good things can happen, its up to you and the moves you make. |
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| Sonic_c |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stephen Wiley
I'm having a hard time believing 3000 euro's for a remix unless it was a monster name. When exactly did this occur and do you mind telling the parties involved. |
Wasn't a remix but I cant say :( I heard through a friend of his and the amount was not supposed to get out at all, the label was one of the biggest trance ones def find in top 10 beatport etc all the time. |
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| DigiNut |
Honestly, no, there isn't much of a "retail" audience for trance/house/techno productions; the majority of people buying a mix off Beatport or an LP are going to be DJs.
Most of the "real" money made by producers is from touring (assuming they're also a DJ), up-front fees (if they're highly in demand), or royalties (if they whore out to compilations or mass media).
Electronic music kind of invalidates the traditional distribution model with labels as the distributors. In this scene, labels are more like agents, and DJs are the distributors, and unfortunately a producer does not get royalties from that 2nd tier of distribution. It's like selling unlimited broadcast rights for a flat fee of $1.50.
Edit: Truthfully I think this is an OK model, too. The fact is that pop producers sink hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of dollars into the production of a hit album. Bedroom producers are like the open-source nerds of the music world, spending nothing but their own free time and sometimes buying expensive, useful but unnecessary toys at their own discretion. Frankly I'm always surprised that even a small number of them are able to make any real money doing their own productions, because most put dinner on the table by renting their studio out for local pop bands. |
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| cronodevir |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Honestly, no, there isn't much of a "retail" audience for trance/house/techno productions; the majority of people buying a mix off Beatport or an LP are going to be DJs.
Most of the "real" money made by producers is from touring (assuming they're also a DJ), up-front fees (if they're highly in demand), or royalties (if they whore out to compilations or mass media).
Electronic music kind of invalidates the traditional distribution model with labels as the distributors. In this scene, labels are more like agents, and DJs are the distributors, and unfortunately a producer does not get royalties from that 2nd tier of distribution. It's like selling unlimited broadcast rights for a flat fee of $1.50.
Edit: Truthfully I think this is an OK model, too. The fact is that pop producers sink hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of dollars into the production of a hit album. Bedroom producers are like the open-source nerds of the music world, spending nothing but their own free time and sometimes buying expensive, useful but unnecessary toys at their own discretion. Frankly I'm always surprised that even a small number of them are able to make any real money doing their own productions, because most put dinner on the table by renting their studio out for local pop bands. |
Virtual Media [tapes] ruined music as a profitable industry. As soon as tapes came about, a slippery slope occurred where you get to what we have now, a culture of music downloaders and bitorrent users. Unless you sell a brand name like TeistoŠ or ArminŠ you won't be making hundreds of thousands. You will barely feed yourself. Bands and Rappers make money touring and going to places and such, and most other not dance EDM music goes to advertising and other media [such as games or movies]...dance music..just...ugh. Not so much. |
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| Kismet7 |
I think the important thing for us as Producers, is that the EDM listener base continues to grow year over year. And as long as the listener base is growing, opportunities will continue to expand. At the moment I always run into more and more people who you would think only know of pop, rock, hip hop music, but I always see a random EDM song on their myspace or a youtube version on their myspace. I dont think this was anywhere near the case 10 years ago.
Indeed Distribution is still archaic for EDM music, but who knows, maybe within the next 10 years things can and likely will improve. Especially if the big 5 labels open the floodgates, who have very cautiously invested in EDM music so far. They are continously warming their feet through the Indie Dance and Indie Rock artists and outfits, which does help listeners assimilate towards more purer forms of electronic music. So we will continue to see a graduation towards more Electronic Music by listeners of music, as long as this growth continues, the potential to be successful in EDM rises, if your music is good, and in the right hands. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Virtual Media [tapes] ruined music as a profitable industry. As soon as tapes came about, a slippery slope occurred where you get to what we have now, a culture of music downloaders and bitorrent users. Unless you sell a brand name like TeistoŠ or ArminŠ you won't be making hundreds of thousands. You will barely feed yourself. Bands and Rappers make money touring and going to places and such, and most other not dance EDM music goes to advertising and other media [such as games or movies]...dance music..just...ugh. Not so much. |
There's never been a shred of hard evidence that "music downloaders" affect the bottom line by more than a few %. Have you visited an HMV lately? There's still plenty of money to be made from CD albums, just not in electronic music, and there never was in electronic music.
It's common sense that as distribution becomes cheaper and easier, margins become smaller and more people take it upon themselves to become illegal distributors. That doesn't mean we should all go back to 45's. It's called progress, and progress almost always brings some bad with the good. |
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| cronodevir |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
There's never been a shred of hard evidence that "music downloaders" affect the bottom line by more than a few %. Have you visited an HMV lately? There's still plenty of money to be made from CD albums, just not in electronic music, and there never was in electronic music.
It's common sense that as distribution becomes cheaper and easier, margins become smaller and more people take it upon themselves to become illegal distributors. That doesn't mean we should all go back to 45's. It's called progress, and progress almost always brings some bad with the good. |
Are there any decent statistics for EDM [trance/house/psy] that show record sales pre 99 and post 99 and do they correlate with things like torrent/downloading/trends?
I always heartell stories about how the scene is growing, and from others its dead, and from others its not loosing sales, and from others piracy killed it, etc etc... |
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| msz |
| man overwhelmed where i want to send my demos to. yea i kno u guys cant really help me, everyone is different. go big or go home? |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stephen Wiley
It is a problem when I have an album at #1 for both overall Trance and #1 for Progressive house @ Juno with only a little more than 30 units sold.
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When I think "album" I think "major rip off." I'd rather just get exactly the songs I want and not have to pay for fluff put in. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
I do think there's a higher percentage of listeners who decide to DJ and produce than ever before, simply because those things are getting more accessible and less expensive, but you have to wonder how many of those people actually keep at it for more than a few years. For example, I've seen a few people in Music Discussion and Chillout Room forums say that they used to produce but stopped.
DJing and royalties are probably the biggest source of revenue. If you don't DJ, your best bet might be to work really, really hard at making something you think might go well in a commercial or movie.
:p |
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